This week, we’re offering a Weekly Sync meeting agenda – courtesy of System and Soul – that will ensure your CEO, COO, and your entire team are in alignment and can start each week off strong.
Access NowWhat does a CEO need from their COO? And more specifically, what does a leader need from their direct report, and vice versa?
McKenzie Reeves Decker is the COO of System & Soul, and she works for a visionary, driven leader. In this episode, she talks about how to make the most of a relationship with your leader, and why it’s so hard for some leaders to ask for and receive help.
Whether it’s an entrepreneur who wants to sell the business and start something from scratch, while taking less money and maybe less prestige. Or maybe it’s just someone who might be in a role and needs to take time off to raise a family or do something different. It’s very possible to take that “step back” and eventually boomerang forward past anything you imagined.
Does this position FUEL the person’s unique ability? Does it IMPACT their trajectory and the company’s trajectory? And is it TIMELY for the business and the person? This is a great way to filter through whether or not that person is a good fit, a good hire, for a potential position.
They need to want the same things out of what they’re doing and be on the same page. They need to see the same value in what they are creating together. If that’s the foundation of what they both are doing, then they will have a successful, healthy relationship.
(01:44) McKenzie talks about the best vacation she’s ever been on.
(04:24) McKenzie talks about her journey going from being on staff at North Point church to working for John Maxwell to being the COO at System and Soul.
(08:46) Sometimes you have to take a step back to boomerang forward.
(09:20) “No matter what I’m doing, I want to be doing it with a sense of humility.”
(11:14) What is System and Soul and what do they do?
(13:10) What is like being the COO to a driven, visionary leader?
(15:51) What does someone need from their leader to be an effective second in command?
(19:17) Part of the job of the #2 is to make sure the visionary CEO knows you see their dream and know they are not carrying it alone.
(20:24) Is a team member the right F.I.T.? Does it Fuel their unique ability? Does it Impact their trajectory? Is it Timely for the business and the person?
(21:49) How can our audience connect with McKenzie and System and Soul?
(25:20) This week’s one next step: We’re offering a CEO-COO Alignment Guide – a series of conversation prompts to help the top two executives get on the same page.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
In our organization, we talk about team members being the right FIT and FIT is an acronym. And FIT is, does it fuel their unique ability? Does it impact their trajectory where they want to be and where the company wants to be? And then is it timely for the business? Isn’t it timely for the person? And I think that’s true with the CEO-COO relationship.
Speaker 2:
Welcome to One Next Step, the most practical business podcast in the world. Helping you get more done, grow your business and lead your team with confidence with tips and tools you didn’t get in business school. Here are your hosts, Tricia Sciortino and Lisa Zeeveld.
Tricia Sciortino:
Welcome to the One Next Step, the practical business podcast that helps you run your business so it stops running you. I’m Tricia.
Lisa Zeeveld:
And I’m LZ. Today we’re going to talk about a topic that’s relevant for all leaders. What does your second in command want from you? Well, McKenzie Reeves Decker joins us to talk about just this.
Tricia Sciortino:
McKenzie is this COO of System & Soul, a company that helps business owners deal with the chaos and complexity of running a business. She’s also a former Marketing Manager for John Maxwell’s Company.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Man, we are so excited to chat with McKenzie about how she works with a visionary leader and makes the most out of that relationship. So let’s jump right in. Welcome, McKenzie.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
Hello, thank you. Glad to be here.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Yeah, we are so excited to have you today. So with all of our podcasts, we always like to open it up with one fun question. Maybe a little known fact or something that perhaps other people don’t know about you. So our question for you today is what is the best vacation you’ve ever had?
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
Oh, man. It feels like centuries since I’ve been on vacation.
Tricia Sciortino:
This is a hard year to ask. It’s a hard time to ask a question like this. It’s been a challenge.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
Let me dive into the archives. Not because of my job, it’s because of the pandemic just to be clear. So first off, I have not traveled extensively. My family vacations, my whole life growing up were to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Not ultra fancy vacations. In my early 20s, I took a trip to Paris for 10 days.
Tricia Sciortino:
Wow.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
Paris and then traveling down through the middle of France to Central France and then to the south of France. It was just maybe the most incredible experience I’ve ever had. Just I loved the art and the culture and just the country itself is so varied and beautiful. So I would say that was my favorite trip. It was a very high impact. You know those trips where you pack so many things in. It’s like you never rest. So it was an amazing trip, but I will say the older I get, and I wouldn’t say I’m that much older since I went on that trip, I more lean towards trips where I sleep in and I’m sitting in a chair on the beach or looking at trees or, you know what I mean? That was maybe the best trip ever, but going forward, they’re a lot more relaxed now I think.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Well, that’s the difference between a trip and a vacation, especially as you have a family. It’s like, “No, we’re going to go on a vacation to the beach.” And you’re like, you bring your littles and you’re like, “No, no, no, no, that’s a trip.” Because you work just as hard on the trip as you do when you’re at home. So I agree, a vacation is when you sit and you do nothing and I love those.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
Yes.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Yes.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
You need more like that.
Tricia Sciortino:
Beautiful. Well, it’s on my hit list. I’ve never been to Europe.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
Really?
Tricia Sciortino:
I know. I’m living under a rock. No, I’ve never been and so it’s on my bucket list for this year. It will happen. It’s my goal.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
You should. I’m newly married. We’re married less than a year. We have not taken a honeymoon trip. So I think my favorite trip in the future will be… We want to go to Florence, Italy and sit in chairs and drink wine.
Tricia Sciortino:
And eat Italian food.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
Oh, yes. And eat. Yes.
Tricia Sciortino:
Yes. I love that. I love it. So you have such a fascinating story going from being on staff at North Point Church to John Maxwell’s Company and eventually becoming the COO now of System & Soul. So tell us a little bit about your journey and the progress of your career has been over the last few years.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
I’ve always been drawn to organizations that have incredible leadership. And I think that’s why I started where I started. My family has always gone to North Point churches and then from there, it was really an honor to find a role on a team there where I really got to cut my teeth and try things. And they’re an incredible organization as far as people development and having a contagious culture. So I started there as a Project Manager/Project Coordinator, I was working with their middle school ministry. So I was doing a lot of planning middle school camps, and then going and spending my whole weekend with sixth graders, which was brand new to me, very interesting step to take, but it was a total honor to get to write content, to help plan events that are seriously life changing for kids at that at stage of life.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
And from there, part of what I loved about my job there was the content that I got to create and write and the marketing aspect of what I was doing. And I just started having this sense that I needed to go and explore the marketing side of things a little bit more. And that’s how I ended up at The John Maxwell Company. And here’s the other thing, I feel like every job I’ve ever had has been like someone taking a huge risk and placing a bet on me that I never felt I deserved. I felt like I could learn. I always stepped into these roles and said, “I don’t know how to do that, but I can learn how to do that.” And that’s what happened, I got hired, The John Maxwell Company and really, I was there for five years.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
And over that time I started in this marketing coordinator role. And then slowly year over year, I gained responsibility and credibility with my team and I ended up running a division there. I think I was in the right place at the right time with the right people to put the wind in my sails and really push me forward. But I think it was also just, I have this sort of, I think it’s strength and a weakness, probably in a lot of people that sit in my role where you crave responsibility and crave learning more, doing more, pushing the limit and seeing how much further you can go. So that’s what it looked like as I was at The John Maxwell Company. And then I started to have this sense where I started to feel in this tug of like, there’s something… I love what I’m doing.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
I love running the team and running the day to day of the business and being involved in how we create this and build this thing. And I really started to feel like I wanted to do something where I was more at the beginning of it and at the heart and the foundation of what I was working in. And that’s how I ended up where I am now. And Tricia, actually, I should say this, we have something in common. I know you started out as an EA in your role and here you are now. So in making my transition to where I am now, I had to take several steps back and Benj Miller is the visionary that I work with, the CEO.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
And initially our company didn’t exist and he’s like, “Well, I have a future in mind for you in this business, but it doesn’t exist yet. So can you start as my EA? And can we start where you’re answering my emails and getting things on my calendar?” And I was like, “Yes, absolutely and we’ll build from there.” And we have over the last two years.
Tricia Sciortino:
I love that.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
Yeah. Yeah. I totally trusted him and totally stepped into something that was not what I anticipated, not what I thought it would be, but it was exactly the right thing. And I think, I just knew in my gut, this is where I have to be so that I can be a part of building something greater.
Tricia Sciortino:
Yeah. Sometimes you have to take a step back so you can absolutely boomerang and rocket forward. And so you’ve done it. I’ve done it. Even LZ did it too. LZ’s story coming to BELAY is the same. She came in as an EA when she had done way bigger and more exciting things in her career. And then now she’s the CFO of the organization. So I think a lot of people maybe are scared to take a backward step because they think maybe they’ll never wind up where they were when an actuality, sometimes it honestly propels you to places you never knew existed.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
Oh, totally. And I think no matter what I’m doing, I always want to be doing it with a sense of humility. I’m not above putting something in the calendar. I’m not above taking out the trash. And I think starting with the things that help just make the day to day happen. I think it’s just this appreciation for that, no matter where you’re working in the organization later on. And I love that. I think it’s valuable. It’s been incredibly valuable to me.
Lisa Zeeveld:
I love that. Yeah. And I think that’s tweetable Tricia. And sometimes in order to go forward, you have to boomerang back, you have to go back to boomerang forward. That’s a good tweetable moment.
Tricia Sciortino:
It’s an awesome tweet.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Yeah.
Tricia Sciortino:
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Lisa Zeeveld:
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Lisa Zeeveld:
Mckenzie, I love your story and I love your journey. So tell us a little bit about System & Soul. What do you guys do?
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
Yeah, well, so as you said earlier, we try to help businesses fight chaos and complexity by creating clarity and control. And a lot of that is done by putting in a business framework that helps create that clarity and harness the control and both the system side, and when we say system side, we’re talking about the cadence of the business and the organizational structure and the way we do meetings and the way the goals that we have out in the future. And then the soul side and tying in the soul side, that’s the culture that we want to have and the values that we represent in the business and who we say we are internally and in the marketplace. So we have a framework that ties together those two things. And what we do is we’ve got an amazing team of executive coaches that work with companies to help them implement that framework and really live it out.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
And it’s incredibly rewarding to see that transformation that happens with these companies. When stuff as simple as setting a meeting cadence, it sounds so simple, but more and more people I talk to about what we do, they’re like, “We need that. Our meetings are useless or we have so many of them and we don’t know why we’re doing it. And we don’t walk away with anything new.” And we try to solve those problems or solve organizational structure problems. And it’s incredibly rewarding. And I think, incredibly needed in organizations of all size and all stage.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Yeah, I would agree with that.
Tricia Sciortino:
Absolutely.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Yeah.
Tricia Sciortino:
Entrepreneurs are creative. They’re not always process oriented, so it’s definitely needed. Well, so we’re here to talk a little bit about what it means to be COO, number two in charge, second in command, the operator to the visionary. So tell us a little bit about what it’s like for you, what it feels like for you and for our listeners out there who maybe sitting in a similar seat as you, what it’s like being the COO to a driven visionary leader.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
Yeah. And I would say, so this role for me has been just new in the last few years, but I think, like you said, there’s people in similar roles, even as a marketing manager, working with a CMO or as an EA working with an executive, I think the dynamics are all always very similar. But what I would say what it’s like is, so it’s incredibly rewarding because it’s taking my strengths as someone who loves to get things done. I love to put process behind ideas. I love to put the plan behind the ideas and really move it forward. And I think it’s really highlighting those strengths when you work with someone who’s the complete opposite of you. And that’s exactly what the relationship is. It’s the future thinker paired with the present thinker trying to make the future happen today.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
So that’s what it feels like. The other part of is oftentimes the way our organization is structured and the way that we recommend this structure for other organizations. That visionary and operator pairing, the operator sits between the visionary and everybody else in the organization. And so in my role, as a COO, as the operator, I’m the conduit of information, I’m the conduit of all the ideas back down to the team in a way that really helps create the context and the speed of execution and all of that. And so it can be really challenging position at times to sit between sort of as a canal or a channel. I think of water rushing through.
Lisa Zeeveld:
A funnel. Yeah.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
A funnel. Yeah. And it can be a very challenging role, but I think people who do this, well, I think are uniquely equipped to manage that. And I think there are some ways too, I would love to give as much credit as I can to my CEO, my visionary Benj and how well he appreciates and values the way that I play in my role.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Yeah. So what do you need from your leader to be effective in a kind of second in command role, COO role? Because, I’m thinking about some of our smaller organizations, there’s someone whose second in command who maybe doesn’t have that title yet. Right. You mentioned when your business got started, that you were the second in command but you had the title of EA, you were an Executive Assistant.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
Yeah.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Tricia’s been in that role too, right. There’s only two of you and you got to get stuff done. And so what do you need from your leader to be effective? What are some good qualities that our listeners could take away?
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
I think it’s this mutual appreciation. And maybe more than that, before I was ever placed in any role, before titles ever happened. We started working together because we were aligned in our values. And we wanted the same things out of the work that we were doing. So at the core, it’s like, “Okay, we are on the same page here. Whatever we’re doing, this is how we’re going to do it. And this is what we value in each other and what we value creating in the world.” I think for anyone that’s important at the foundation of whoever you’re working with and whoever you’re paired with doing the work you’re doing, it’s so key to have that values alignment. And I would say from the EA times back then up to now, it’s just a constant conversation. And a constant appreciation and reappreciation of how different we are and how we think differently and really, really honing in to trust that Benj has my best interests at heart and understands and appreciates why I think the way that I think, and then the same in his direction that I hear him, I appreciate him.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
And I trust his visionary mindset that it’s for the best of the organization. So I think it’s probably a squishier answer than practical skills or competencies or anything, but it’s what keeps that pairing really strong is just that core understanding and core appreciation of core values.
Tricia Sciortino:
Well, I wonder if that’s why so many people find it hard, right. If we talk about what the issues are behind sometimes how this type of relationship can be hard, what would you say? You’ve already said, which I love, trust and appreciation, honestly, for your diversity, because it’s probably two very different mindsets of people, when you think about a visionary CEO versus a very operational minded COO. Do you think there are any other areas or things that make it hard?
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
Maybe I’ll tie this back to that trust and values alignment. At least for us, so we’re still a young company and really, I think with most entrepreneurs, if they’re one year old and they’re under a million dollars or they’re a 100 million dollars or whatever it is, it all started with that entrepreneur that visionary having this dream. And I think that that dream is, it has to be carried so well. And I think that’s part of my job is my leader, Benj always needs to know that I see his dream and I get it and I’m totally for it. And I think that can get lost sometimes where a visionary or a CEO has this clear picture of what the dream of the company can be. And that person who plays in the role that I play in, they have to really, really understand that and really, really be the cheerleader for it in a way, put the process, get it done, make it happen, but help that visionary know that they’re not carrying it alone.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
Everything that we’re putting behind it is tied back to where they envision it going. So I think if that’s not understood or if the connections aren’t made back to that and the being for the visionary, being for the business in the same way isn’t aligned, then I think that’s where you start to have issues. A more practical way to answer that question too, is I think, so in our organization, we talk about team members being the right FIT and the FIT is an acronym. And FIT is, does it fuel their unique ability? Does it impact their trajectory where they want to be and where the company wants to be? And then is it timely for the business? Isn’t it timely for the person?
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
And I think that’s true with the CEO-COO relationship. It’s like the role I’m in has to fuel what I’m uniquely gifted to do. The impact that I can create has to be the right amount of impact at the right time for the business of the stage that we’re in. And then it has to be timely for my maturity, my competency and the maturity and the needs of the business. So I think maybe that’s more practical answer for it, but I think it has to be the right fit too.
Tricia Sciortino:
I love that. I’m writing that down. Not literally, because I’m just going to re-listen to the podcast when it comes out and then I’m going to have it again and again, but I love FIT. I love your acronym for FIT.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
It’s a little long for a tweet.
Tricia Sciortino:
It is.
Tricia Sciortino:
It’s a good Instagram post. It’s post worthy for sure.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Yes.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
Yes.
Tricia Sciortino:
Yes.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Well, what can our audience do to connect with you and System & Soul?
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
Well, so we have a podcast too and we were talking about before we jumped on. Tricia was on our podcast released just this week. So we’re a System & Soul Podcast. You can find us anywhere. And then our website is systemandsoul.com. So that’s where you can find us.
Lisa Zeeveld:
So many good nuggets. And I know that our listeners are going to want to come straight and find you and listen to that podcast. So thank you for sharing that.
McKenzie Reeves Decker:
Yeah, absolutely.
Tricia Sciortino:
This has been a great conversation. It’s been so good to be with you, McKenzie. And listeners, McKenzie is actually going to around a little longer after the interview to answer one more question for us about how to build some routines to make the relationship work, meetings, communication, and so on. You’re not going to want to miss it. So to hear that clip, subscribe to our email list, and we’ll send you a link to our bonus content or visit the onenextsteppodcast.com, where you’ll find a link in our show notes.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Man. McKenzie was so awesome. I just loved her story, loved her journey, and I’m still processing all the goodness. So T I’m going to throw it over to you. I’d love to hear what your takeaway is from our time with her today.
Tricia Sciortino:
Yes. I already teased out and shared it that I loved her acronym for FIT when it comes to really hiring and aligning, if you’ve got to the right focus and the timing is right. So I loved her acronym when it came to her FIT for the roles that she was in over time. It really had me reflecting and thinking about how that was so true, even in my lifetime, in my career. So that was a great takeaway for me, for sure. How about you?
Lisa Zeeveld:
Yeah. Yeah, because it’s not so much about, can you do the job, right? Like the acronym of FIT was so much more than just whether or not you can do the job. Yeah. I love that. Gosh, I love how you just jumped right in there when she was talking about her journey and how she joked that, we had similar journeys, especially you and how you supported Bryan Miles who started BELAY as you were the EA and she had done something very similar. And you said, and I joked around that it was tweetable, that so often people get really scared about taking a step back in their career, because they’re worried they’re never going to get forward. And you said, it’s like a little boomerang. And so I think that’s really good for anybody listening. Truth be known, I speak to entrepreneurs.
Lisa Zeeveld:
We were just at a fabulous event, no name dropping, where I was talking to people who were like, “I don’t want to do this business anymore. I’m going to sell it and go to another business.” That could be a boomerang, right? You could have built a very successful business. You want to sell it and maybe create something new and you’re going to take less money, less prestige, all of those things, as well as a listener who might be in a role, they need to take time off to raise a family, or they just want to do something completely different. And I think all three of us really show that that’s possible to do that. And sometimes the outcome will blow your mind.
Tricia Sciortino:
Yes. I love it.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Right?
Tricia Sciortino:
Yes.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Oh, I love that. Well, as always, we have a one next step for you to take. This week, we’re offering a CEO-COO alignment guide. A series of conversation prompts to help the top two executives get on the same page.
Tricia Sciortino:
Thank you for joining us guys. We will see you next week for another great episode, filled with practical tips and actionable tools to advance your business one step at a time.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Start by making today count.
Tricia Sciortino:
J.R. McNair will join the podcast next week. Guys, J.R. is a small business expert, an international speaker who is considered one of the nation’s foremost experts on startup businesses. He’s also the founder of The Velocity Accelerator and Small Business Day, the nation’s largest startup event. He’s going to chat with us about some of the trends he’s seeing in small businesses and some of the challenges and opportunities they’re facing right now. Here’s a preview.
J.R. McNair:
Find those customers and make as much money as you can from the customers that you already have. Right? And that is something and I’ve taken with me is like, “How can I serve my customers more? What are some other things I can offer to my existing customer base? So that I don’t necessarily in this time where there may not be as much community that I can go out and offer additional things to help my existing customer base.”
Speaker 2:
Thanks for listening to One Next Step. Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or follow us on Spotify. Then join us next time for more practical business tips and tools to help you get more done, grow your business and lead your team with confidence. For more episodes, show notes and helpful resources, visit onenextsteppodcast.com.
McKenzie Reeves Decker is the COO of System & Soul, and she works for a visionary, driven leader. In this episode, she talks about how to make the most of a relationship with your leader, and why it’s so hard for some leaders to ask for and receive help.
