085: How to Delegate Effectively: Part 2 of Delegate to Elevate

1. A failure to delegate can become exhausting.

When you’re in that situation, you become the defacto go-to person in the area that you’re not delegating. The better option is to find another leader you can trust with their decision-making, make sure they have buy-in, and delegate that task to them.

2. Delegation starts with trust.

Spend time getting to know your peers and the people working for you. Look to understand what drives them and identify those who have potential to be next-level leaders. These are the people you can pour your knowledge into and trust to make decisions.

3. Communication is the most important factor in successful delegation.

Clarity is always key, and you can’t have clarity without communication. You need to have articulated the right steps, the deadline, and a clear example of the outcome. The worst situation is when someone has been delegated something but doesn’t have any details. There’s no way they can be successful. Always communicate!

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Lisa Zeeveld on Instagram and LinkedIn

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(02:09) Matt Seaton reveals his hidden talent.

(04:15) Matt talks about his background, working with Williams Sonoma, and how he eventually got to BELAY.

(08:12) Matt discusses the warning signs he’s experienced in the past when he knows he needs to delegate.

(09:22) Do you ever have times when you feel like you need to delegate, but you don’t want to delegate?

(11:43) How do you slowly build a healthy delegation process?

(12:46) In a virtual environment: How do I know I can trust someone to get this done if I can’t see them?

(13:45) What tools does Matt recommend for delegating in a virtual environment?

(14:58) What type of tools work with specific tasks? For example, which do you use for smaller, shorter tasks, and which do you use for bigger projects?

(16:50) If you’re not as comfortable articulating verbally, many of these tools can help you delegate and explain things better.

(17:43) How do you balance following up on your delegated tasks without feeling like a micromanager?

(19:25) What are some of the most common issues that cause a delegation breakdown?

(21:58) This week’s download: Collection of resources to help you improve your delegating skills. Check them out by visiting onenextsteppodcast.com.

Matt Seaton:

For me, coming into a new organization like BELAY, my venture into delegation was building trust, really spending time getting to know those people that I was working with, my peers, those working for me, really trying to find those areas that motivate them, that drives them, those next level leader potentials. I really did want to find folks that I could pour some of my knowledge and expertise into, and really trust them to make some of those decisions.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to One Next Step, the most practical business podcast in the world, helping you get more done, grow your business, and lead your team with confidence, with tips and tools you didn’t get in business school. Here are your hosts, Tricia Sciortino and Lisa Zeeveld.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Welcome to One Next Step, the practical business podcast that helps you run your business so it stops running you. I’m Lisa Zeeveld, better known as LZ. Today, we’re finishing up a two part episode about delegation, one of my favorite subjects. Last week, we looked at how a leader should know it’s time to start delegating. If you listened in, I know that we hurt your feelings. So today, we’re going to give you some tips on how to actually do it. I know, right? Your toolbox is heavy, your backpack, all this stuff, but you need to know how to put it into practice. We’re going to you how to do that today. So joining us for the very first time, I’m so excited, is my friend and colleague Matt Seaton. Matt is a part of our executive team here at BELAY, and is our amazing VP of Operations. Matt, welcome to the show.

Matt Seaton:

Oh, so glad to be here, LZ. Thank you for having me. I can’t wait to get to dive in here.

Lisa Zeeveld:

I know. I don’t know why it’s taken us so long.

Matt Seaton:

I don’t know either.

Lisa Zeeveld:

To get you on. Well, I know you have so much goodness to offer, especially when it comes to delegation, because not only are you a phenomenal leader here at BELAY, but you bring so much expertise with some pretty big name organizations with you, so I’m super excited to hear your thoughts about delegation.

Matt Seaton:

Absolutely.

Lisa Zeeveld:

One of the things that we like to do is to have a fun little icebreaker, help people get to know you better. Are you ready? I’m going to ask you a fun question.

Matt Seaton:

Yeah. Fire away.

Lisa Zeeveld:

I won’t embarrass you. I promise, I promise. So my fun question for you is that everyone has a hidden talent, what would you say yours is?

Matt Seaton:

I would say my hidden talent is probably, it’s probably my culinary skills. I will find myself in the kitchen, from time to time, I really enjoy it. I love it. It’s fun. I don’t do it as much as probably what I would like to. My wife will give me comments and say, “Oh, you’re so good. You should do this more.” In hindsight, maybe that’s her like, delegating, to me.

Lisa Zeeveld:

I think so.

Matt Seaton:

I’m going have to rethink that. But, yeah, I do enjoy spending time in the kitchen. I think I know my way around.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Wow. I’m kind of embarrassed because you and I have worked together for almost two years, and I did not know that. You do have mad air guitar skills, mad air guitar skills.

Matt Seaton:

Oh, let’s not go there.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Oh, that’s fantastic. Okay, well now I’m going to have to ask Amber what you’re good at cooking.

Matt Seaton:

I’m a guy. I like steaks.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Sure.

Matt Seaton:

Smoked meats, things like that, but yeah.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah.

Matt Seaton:

I really, now that I say it out loud, I think she’s just delegating to me to try to get me to cook more in the kitchen.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Yeah. I will say that from a wife’s perspective, I don’t care what you cook, as long as I’m not cooking, so I’m with her on that.

Matt Seaton:

That’s probably what’s going on here. Yes, yes.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. I actually had Michael cook last night. I was busy, it’s month and year end close here for us at BELAY. And I didn’t know what to cook, didn’t have time to cook, Michael made it, and I just sat there, and he is like, “Oh, is it good?? I’m like, “Hey, it is delicious.” Because I didn’t actually cook it.

Matt Seaton:

I didn’t have to make it. It was here.

Lisa Zeeveld:

I didn’t have to make it.

Matt Seaton:

Yeah.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah, yeah. Well now I’m kind of wondering about your background. So the fun thing about it, I want you to give more detail, is that you did work for William Sonoma, so maybe that has something to do with those culinary skills. But why don’t you elaborate, tell us a little bit about your background, how you got to BELAY, and all of your expertise.

Matt Seaton:

Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I really did. I started my career in the retail industry, with William Sonoma. Started out in customer service, spent some time in HR, spent some time back in customer service, ultimately into technology, and overall just kind of operations around the supply chain. I think, just being engrossed with really high-end tools, and being around really smart people, and being encouraged to experiment and try different techniques. It was one of those things that going into it, I didn’t think I would like, and then, just loved the experience of spending time in the kitchen. And did pick up a lot of tools and skills when I was there, not only in the culinary world, but as well as professionally.

Matt Seaton:

When I left William Sonoma, I was overseeing some operations across our direct-to-customer customer care center environment. And when I left there, I transitioned to a company that served the power industry. They were a young organization, was born out of the University of Oklahoma, and it was just a great opportunity for me to come in and take those operational skills that I’d learned at William Sonoma to assist really this organization. So, I came in there, we had a mandate, and it was right around 2010, we said, “You know what? We’re going to build our tools for the cloud.” And it was a pretty lofty goal, at the time.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Right, yeah.

Matt Seaton:

Because it’s the power industry and the cloud wasn’t as buzz word-ish as it is now. There was an uphill battle there. So really kind of got to work through that, built a great product, spent a good amount of my career there, loved the people I worked with, and then found BELAY, and haven’t looked back.

Lisa Zeeveld:

No, and we’re so excited you’re here.

Matt Seaton:

Yeah.

Lisa Zeeveld:

And one funny little, I don’t know, note, that we should say is that Matt, we had interviewed Matt, offered him the job, and then the world shut down with COVID.

Matt Seaton:

Yes, it did.

Lisa Zeeveld:

And so I remember Matt and I, Matt was actually on my team. I remember calling him and being like, “Yeah, so we still want to hire you, but the world is imploding it feels like.” And you still were willing to take the chance and to come and be with us, so thank you for taking a chance on us.

Matt Seaton:

Yeah. It was really one of those things where I had to step out, trust that it was the right decision.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah.

Matt Seaton:

When you look back, some people might say I was crazy, because there’s really nothing more stable than the power industry, everybody needs to turn the lights on.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Sure.

Matt Seaton:

But I felt like I was at that point in my career where I wanted to do something a little bit different. I wanted to work with an organization that had a little bit different mission, and I’m so glad I did.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah, well, we are too, we are too. Last week, Amy and I spent a lot of time talking about delegation and the warning signs when you know you need to delegate. And I know working for an organization like William Sonoma, which is big, especially on the supply chain side, HR side, and then going to work for a young startup that is tackling something as big as trying to build an application in the cloud back in 2010. Again, BELAY was birthed in 2010, so I know how foreign that was to everybody. I’m sure that you had some warning signs on when to delegate, so I don’t want to spend a lot of time here, but I’d love to know, in your perspective, what were some warning signs for you? Maybe in the past, and currently, when you know it’s time for you to delegate?

Matt Seaton:

Oh yeah. I mean, for me, it’s when my to-do list becomes too long, it’s now my too long list. It’s me, I’m spending time actually trying to execute too many things. And I really recognize that I’ve got a team around me that can do those things. When I started in the power industry space, it was a very small ragtag group of really three of us that launched this product, and there was a lot that we had to do ourselves. But as we grew and added people, the need to delegate was born out of really the growth of our products. And I see that here, we go through seasons at BELAY where it is just very busy, and I have to be very sensitive to the fact that I do enjoy doing some of it, but I do have to pull myself out of it at times if I want to lift my head above the fire of the moment and see where we’re going.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Do you personally ever have times when you know that you need to delegate, but you don’t want to delegate? Because I feel like that’s where a lot of leaders sit, is they have that too long list, but it’s really hard for them to actually give the task away. Have you experienced that? And how do you get over that?

Matt Seaton:

Yeah. I have, LZ, I am today. I do enjoy some of the nerdy aspects of the IT world. I do love rolling up my sleeves and getting into doing some of it. But what I’ve learned, just over the years is that, that can be exhausting because you become the defacto expert in this area. And really where I have shifted my focus and my career and where delegation is important to me, is really developing that next level leader, the ones that I can trust, and entrust them with the decision making so that they really have the buy-in.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And I think that kind of goes back to that whole 80/20 rule too, about when to know when to delegate. It’s like, if you can consciously give up a portion of what you’re doing to be more successful, then it’s the right time to do it.

Matt Seaton:

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

Tricia Sciortino:

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Lisa Zeeveld:

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Lisa Zeeveld:

Well, is there a way to slowly build a healthy delegation process? Maybe starting with a task, moving onto a group of tasks, projects, goals. And I think back to when you joined BELAY, we had a pretty small IT department. We wanted you to get your feet underneath you, and so we didn’t even really give you the department yet. And then you got the department and you needed to start delegating. Where did you start?

Matt Seaton:

Really, for me, coming into a new organization like BELAY, my venture into delegation was building trust, really spending time getting to know those people that I was working with, my peers, those working for me, really trying to find those areas that motivate them, that drives them, those next level leader potentials. I really did want to find folks that I could pour some of my knowledge and expertise into, and really trust them to make some of those decisions.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s so key, the trust component. And I think that’s especially where people struggle in a virtual environment, is how do I know that I can trust somebody to actually get this done if I can’t see them? So did you experience that at all?

Matt Seaton:

I experienced it. As you said, I came over to BELAY right in the middle of the pandemic, yes, so I experienced it, as the rest of the world was experiencing it. The wonderful thing that we had here was really the knowhow and history, and the organization, you, others, were able to really help guide the organization through that. But, for me, it wasn’t something I had to work on too hard. I really did just say, “I trust you to make this decision.” Of course, we’ll follow up, and inspect what we expect, but really just filling the relationship, virtually or personally, with a ton of trust.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Yeah. Are there any tools that you like to use in a virtual environment for delegation?

Matt Seaton:

Oh, absolutely. Of course, you’ve got your email, and your phone, Slack, I love. One of the things that we do here, and one of the ways that I really love to delegate and keep my hands on the pulse of what’s going on, so to speak, not to micromanage at all, but is the Paycor system that we use for one-on-ones.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Right. Yeah.

Matt Seaton:

I love the fact that we build very meaningful templates for relationship building time. And during the course, like with my team, during our course of our one-on-ones, as action items come up or things that need to be delegated, it’s very natural and simple to just mark it there. And then, in the virtual world, it’s very clear to both sides who now has the ball, who’s going to move it from the next stage. And so that’s one of the tools that I personally really love within my team, is what we use for our one-on-one planning.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Yeah. And with those tools, thinking about email and Slack, and now talking about Paycor, are there specific tasks that are better for one tool over another? So like, would you ever dream of throwing a two week long project in a Slack?

Matt Seaton:

No, no, no, no, no, absolutely not. For us, the other tools that we use for delegation is our project management tool. We are an Asana shop. We love it here. It is great for some of those larger plans, because, again, you can really set clear who owns what.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Sure.

Matt Seaton:

For me, personally, really the introduction of where I would need to delegate often comes out of conversations. I am very conversational with my team. I have to be very intentional about, I can’t just pop in somebody’s office like I could two years ago, so I’ve got to be very conversational with them. That will begin building the framework for, “Okay, these are the areas that maybe you want to take, or that I feel comfortable that you can take 100% of it, or the pieces that you don’t know that I can help you get there so that you can make those decisions.” But, really love to leverage a strong project management tool, and then surround the communication with things like Slack. We love Slack here, quick updates, we have it synced up to all of our tools so that when somebody makes an update in one tool, you can see it right there in Slack. I mean, those two tools are pretty indispensable here at BELAY.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. And I love the fact that you talked about different types of tools, because I know that not every leader, you do a phenomenal job with this, but you are very conversational, and you look forward to building relationships and building trust in those one-on-one meetings. But I know not everybody’s comfortable with that, and so if there’s a leader listening right now, who’s like, “It’s kind of hard for me to articulate what I want, verbally.” Having a tool like Slack, or email, or Asana project management tool, can give them the framework to lay out some steps, that’s written, where maybe they are not as comfortable verbally communicating them.

Matt Seaton:

Yeah, and if you’re not as comfortable, likely in your organization, there’s other leaders who are. Strike up that conversation with them, see what tools they’re using. I mean, with a lot of these tools, like Asana, you could build out templates. Hey, what template are you using for this? Or same with Paycor, what template are you using for your one-on-ones? And see how you can adopt some of those strategies or ideas into your day-to-day.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. I love that. You kind of teased out micromanagement a little, and I don’t think anybody, I’d have to probably ask some second grade teachers, I don’t think anybody puts that they want to grow up and be a micromanager. Nobody intends to do that.

Matt Seaton:

No, no. It’s not fun.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Never do, never do. No. But yet, as a leader, it’s our job to follow up on the tasks that have been delegated. So, how do you do that? How do you follow up without feeling like a micromanager?

Matt Seaton:

Yeah. Yeah, so for me, I’ve had, throughout my career, a lot of different people that I’ve worked for and with, and have seen what to do really well, and then I’ve learned from those who didn’t do it well. Other areas-

Lisa Zeeveld:

No names. No names.

Matt Seaton:

No names, none of that. But, I would say I’ve learned from amazing leaders. I’ve also learned from those who struggled, as ways that I did not want to lead moving forward. And for me, really, one of the strategies I like to do, in terms of our regular sprint and planning of really weekly or biweekly intervals, is asking for demos. So I will ask my team, “Hey, where are we out with this? Can you just shoot me a quick little, two minute demo of the functionality?” And I think that’s a great way to just make sure that it’s moving the way that you expected, because the last thing I would actually want to do to anybody I delegate something to is for them to bring me a final product that missed an expectation that I didn’t really give them a chance to have an on course correction. So, I think that regular feedback loop is really important.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. And this might actually answer this next question, but what are some of the most common issues that cause a delegation breakdown? I would imagine communication is one of them, right?

Matt Seaton:

That to me is the biggest. I can’t wrap my head around anything else other than that one that would cause a breakdown there. Now, what you could see in an organization, perhaps is if you, as a leader, don’t know how to delegate, you are going to see this chaotic orbit going around that lack of delegation.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Yeah. Clarity is key to any part of delegation and communication is the course on clarity. You can’t have clarity without communication, and so you have to have the right steps, you have to have the deadlines, you have to have a clear example of the outcome, because that’s one of the things that is really bad as the receiver is to be delegated a task and no additional details. It’s like someone just threw it over the fence, it was like a bomb. They threw it over the fence, and then they ran, and then you don’t feel like you can be successful at it. And nobody wants to fail. I truly believe that there are very few people in a position that set out to fail in that position.

Matt Seaton:

Oh right. And I mean, our responsibility as leaders, it’s not only to delegate and build those up around us, but it’s to cast the vision up front so that, while we may not connect all of the dots, we may give them 50%, 70% of the path of what we’re looking for, it’s really creating that shared vision of what you’re striving for, as a team, as an organization, within a project, any of those.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Shared vision, that’s great. Well, I feel like we have more to talk about on this topic, so would you mind sticking around and maybe we can offer our listeners a bonus episode?

Matt Seaton:

I would love to.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Awesome. Well, thank you. All right, guys, so stick around for our bonus question, where Matt and I will talk about building a culture of delegation in your company. You definitely don’t want to miss it.

Lisa Zeeveld:

To hear that clip, subscribe to our email list, and we’ll send you a link to our bonus content. Or you can always visit onenextsteppodcast.com, where you can find a link in our show notes.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Man, I have loved this conversation with Matt today. I hope you guys have enjoyed the second part of our series on delegation. I want to leave you with one more item. This week, we have a One Next Step for you to take, and that is a collection of resources to help you improve your delegating skills. Check them out by visiting onenextsteppodcast.com. Until next time, own your journey. Join us next week for more practical tips and actionable tools to advance your business one step at a time. Start by making today count.

Tricia Sciortino:

Don’t miss next week’s episode when we’ll be joined by Ted Vaughn, co-author of Culture Built My Brand. We’ll be chatting about why culture is the foundation of your brand, and how you can put their method in place to build a winning company culture. I can’t wait for you to hear this one! Here’s a sneak peek.

Ted Vaughn:

Typically in an organization, you’ve got your vertical structures. So you’ve got a chief who is over a division. So you’ve got a vertical authority structure and that’s important, you need that. Brand should not be vertical, brand should be lateral. Brand should be something that everybody takes responsibility for, is an owner of, has a piece of, and brand is a lateral conversation that cuts across the entire organization. Breakthrough is horizontal not vertical.

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