This week’s resource is BELAY’s brand new Delegate to Elevate ebook – packed with information to help you accomplish more by juggling less.
Access NowIn the first of a two-part episode about delegation, LZ and BELAY’s Director of Marketing, Amy Appleton, will share how a leader can know when it’s time to start delegating, the obstacles they’ll face, and how to develop trust with other team members (i.e. contractors, employees, etc.).
They’ll also talk about the myth of the “Superhero ideology” and why “I’m fine” just doesn’t always cut it.
When you delegate, it allows you to multiply your efforts, capacity, and results as a leader. Even more, it allows you to develop and empower other people. Delegating effectively frees you up to do what you are the best at doing without staying caught up in the weeds.
If people are always waiting on you, and there’s 20 other things that still need to be done, then it’s time to find a way to pass that responsibility onto someone else. You should trust the people that you’ve hired, so allow them to blossom and grow by passing off the things that you simply cannot do anymore.
If someone can do the job 70% as good as you can, it’s time to hand that job off. That is an opportunity to teach someone else how to do it, knowing that their 70% will get better. It might take a little time, but this will free you up in the long run.
(01:29) What are some of the typical warning signs or issues indicating leaders should start delegating?
(02:32) Warning Sign #1: You’re working on tiny tasks.
(04:21) Warning Sign #2: You’re working on tedious tasks.
(05:52) Warning Sign #3: You’re working on time-consuming tasks.
(07:01) Warning Sign #4: You’re working on easily-teachable tasks.
(09:51) Warning Sign #5: You’re working on tasks you’re terrible at.
(11:29) Warning Sign #6: You’re often sending emails that start with, “Sorry for the delay.”
(12:05) Amy explains the 70% rule.
(14:04) What are the reasons so many people are resistant to delegating? (the superhero mindset, letting go of being the “go-to” person)
(21:47) Make sure you have hobbies in your free time that give you immediate gratification and allow you to check something off your list.
(23:16) When should a leader not delegate?
(27:09) What can leaders do to develop trust to start delegating more?
Amy Appleton:
If you are sending so many emails and they are all starting with, “Sorry for the delay.”
Lisa Zeeveld:
I think that just hurt some people, hearing that.
Amy Appleton:
I’m sorry, everyone listening, if this is your week of, “Sorry for the delay.”, but it usually just means that you’re trying to do too much and there are probably some things that you could easily adjust and give to someone else in order to free you up to do the things that are most important for you to do.
Speaker 3:
Welcome to One Next Step, the most practical business podcast in the world, helping you get more done, grow your business and lead your team with confidence, with tips and tools you didn’t get in business school. Here are your hosts, Tricia Sciortino and Lisa Zeeveld.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Welcome to One Next Step, the practical business podcast that helps you run your business so it stops running you. I’m Lisa Zeeveld, better known as LZ. Today I’m jump starting a two part masterclass episode on delegation. In this first episode, I’m speaking with none other than Amy Appleton, and together, we’re going to break down the basics of delegation and talk about how you can know when it’s time to start delegating.
Amy Appleton:
So many leaders struggle with making that first initial transition, so we’re going to dig into delegating and how you can know when you are ready.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Exactly. All right. So, let’s get started. Let’s talk a little bit about what delegation is and why it matters. What are some of the typical warning signs or issues indicating leaders should start delegating? There are probably things that they don’t even want to acknowledge Amy, I know they’re probably sitting right there going “No.”, so help them when the right time is.
Amy Appleton:
Absolutely. So, delegation is, actually according to Webster, the act of empowering to act for another. So, that’s the act, that’s really confusing, isn’t it? The act of empowering to act for another. But basically, because I know that’s kind of deep, that’s deeper than I thought.
Lisa Zeeveld:
So deep. I don’t know, did I have enough caffeine yet today to digest that?
Amy Appleton:
It’s a leadership skill. In its simplest, it’s going to allow you to multiply your efforts and your results as a leader. And then the other thing that it does is it actually allows you to help develop and empower other people when you can delegate well and effectively. So, I think some of those warning signs, jumping right into those, because you’re right, I think people are immediately like, they either know or, some of these may resonate as we go through them, on those warning signs, you’re working on tiny tasks.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Yeah. I think that’s so true. And I like how you said that it multiplies your capacity, I think is what you said about delegation. And I think about how when we’re working on tiny task, how that does not make us very efficient, and it certainly doesn’t make us better leaders, and so I think about multiplying my capacity and all of the tiny things that have a big impact, right? So, I want to clarify, tiny things don’t mean a tiny impact. A lot of the tiny things we do have a big impact, it’s just not the best use of our time for us to do those tiny things. One of the things that comes to mind is expense reporting, that may seem like a tiny thing, but let me tell you, my assistant Kate does my expense reporting for me, it’s a tinier task, but it has a huge impact on the business.
Amy Appleton:
And tiny doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a short amount of time, like your example of expense reports, I don’t know about you, but I know that’s a number one thing when we talk to people who are looking to delegate, they’re very excited to delegate that because they’re time consuming, they’re meticulous, they’re detailed, you have to get it right, if you don’t get it right it gets kicked back to you. And again, when you talk about multiplying your efforts, it seems like a small task, but sometimes it turns into a much bigger ordeal and time that you actually don’t need to be spent going back and forth if someone else can do that for you.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Totally. Well, I think that goes into the next one, which is the tedious task. So, sometimes it’s tiny and tedious, wooh, the double Ts. And an expense report would be that tedious thing that might be a tiny task, but it’s very tedious, and so it’s, again, not the best of your time when you could be, maybe, you’re still involved in the sales component of your business and maybe you need to be out there networking and not behind the computer for two to three hours working on that expense report.
Amy Appleton:
Yeah. Another great example with that is really any kind of pulling reporting, especially if you are a type of person that enjoys pulling the reports. It can be tedious, it can be a meticulous, by the time you’re putting things if you love to be in Excel spreadsheets, but that’s not actually what drives your business or actually shouldn’t be what you’re doing as a leader, that’s another great example of something where that is actually something that someone else could be doing for you.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Right. Yes. And for those of us who do like Excel spreadsheets, I think this is a great opportunity to delegate maybe the other thing that you don’t like to do. So, maybe for me, I might find it really fun to pull a report and to dive into it, but that just means that I have to delegate something else, I can’t do it all. And so, I do believe that there’s a gifting, you have a gift in a particular area of your business and maybe you don’t want to give that away, but definitely you have to. So, there’s something else tedious that you’re doing that you don’t like, and it could be a time-consuming task, look at that.
Amy Appleton:
Yeah. I mean, the next one for the time-consuming tasks is, research is a great example of a time consuming task. And what if you could get 80% of the way there by actually having someone else do it and then it comes back to you for the most important 20% of making decisions or doing the final analysis based on the research, but research is another one, which can be… It does, it takes time.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Yeah. I love that example too of, share 80% of the research. I think that’s just a good quantifiable metric or mark that you can really look at a task or a project and think through, “Can I delegate 80% of that?” I love that you’re using things that are very measurable for us to think through our list of task and what we can delegate. What might be next?
Amy Appleton:
It is actually working on easily teachable tasks. It could be in the bucket of things that you love to do but you could easily explain, or if you have technology that allows you to, we use Loom here and Loom is a great… You can actually screen record with your voice and show people and actually teach them how to do something else, if it’s a simple process or something that has 5, 6, 7 steps, that is then repeatable, that is another great example of something. If you find yourself doing those, over and over again, that’s a great example of something that you could easily delegate.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Yeah. And I like teachable task and I think that there’s probably a lot of leaders that fall in this bucket. We’re leaders because we like watching other people grow, we kind of come in alongside them in some former fashion and some sort of mentor role, and so I see this teachable task is really filling, kind of, that void of being that teacher and that mentor, because you may feel “Oh, I don’t know if I really want to delegate it”, but put it in perspective of that you’re going to help a team member learn a task that they didn’t know before, and you’re helping them grow in their professional development. So, I would always say, if you are kind of having a hard time thinking about things to delegate, those teachable tasks to me are really easy ones to do, because it feels good to teach somebody a new skill.
Amy Appleton:
It does. And it goes back to what we talked about, it is empowering other people, to developing and learning and growing your team around you, and that truly will multiply itself over and over and over again. One that I have that is a warning sign, I don’t know about you, but this is… I’ll be honest, this is a me one, I’m the bottleneck. I’m the bottleneck, I know it, they’re waiting on me. Waiting on me to do something that I don’t actually have to be the one who’s doing it, that does not feel good. Maybe it’s just I’m the only person that does that, but that feels terrible.
Lisa Zeeveld:
No.
Amy Appleton:
I know there’s a group for people that is waiting.
Lisa Zeeveld:
That’s a huge warning sign for me. I’m with you, Amy. That’s one of those things that I look at my task list and I think, “Ooh, there’s some things on here that I know.” Well, and Amy, you and I work together all the time, and so it could be, “Oh gosh, I know Amy’s waiting for me, and there’s 20 other things ahead of this.”, and I know what you’re asking me to take a look at, I can only do. That’s my expertise. And so there’s got to be some things on my tasks, my to-do list that my assistant can do or that other team members can do. That’s a good warning sign. I like that.
Amy Appleton:
The task that you’re terrible at.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Yeah. And sometimes this one I think is a little hard, because if you don’t have the right kind of emotional intelligence, you actually might not know that you’re terrible at it, and that there might be a better team member to do this. If you are actually within an organization and you’re a leader, and you have a leader above you, lean into them too. When it comes to delegation, I know that what we do, I’m coaching for performance, which is basically an opportunity for us to evaluate all of our team members, and that’s a great time to kind of look at your leader, and, I mean, shoot, if you’re the owner, it’s great to ask your team if there’s something that you’re terrible at that you shouldn’t do, have a piece of humble pie and say, “Listen, I’m trying to learn how to delegate better, is there a blind spot that I don’t realize and that I’m really terrible at and maybe somebody else should do it?”. And you might be surprised, it might be actually a relief for you to delegate it because the whole time you think that you are the only one that should do it, and you don’t realize you’re terrible at it and you hate it.
Amy Appleton:
That’s right. What if they’re secretly, they are redoing stuff. What if your blind spot is that they are actually fixing it on your behalf and not telling you. Like you could actually be saving people time by maybe giving something up that you’re actually terrible at. Yeah. I have another one, which is if you are sending so many emails and they’re all starting with, “Sorry for the delay.”
Lisa Zeeveld:
I think that just hurt some people, hearing that.
Amy Appleton:
Ouch, I’m sorry, everyone listening, if this is your week of “sorry for the delay”. But it usually just means that you’re trying to do too much. You’re trying to do too much and there are probably some things that you could easily adjust and give to someone else in order to free you up to do the things that are most important for you to do
Lisa Zeeveld:
Well, I heard there’s a little thing called the 70% rule, do you want to share that with our listeners?
Amy Appleton:
Yeah. So, the 70% rule is, if someone can do the function, the job, the task, 70% as well as you can, you should probably delegate it. And I think that is a great rule of thumb, and know that people can improve too. I mean, we’re just talking about the first time of feeling you could hand it off to someone, because I know we hurt some people when we said 70%.
Lisa Zeeveld:
They are “Wait a second, I’ll keep doing it then.”
Amy Appleton:
No, 70% is not good enough. And so, just know that when we’re talking about that, what we’re talking about is, that is an opportunity for you to teach someone else how to do it, and note that that 70% will get better and that’s just part of learning to delegate really well. But yes, if they can start out by doing at 70% as well as you can, that is something that you should absolutely look into delegating to somebody else.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Those were all so good. I feel, to your point, we’ve probably hurt some feelings today, we have some people that know this, right? I feel it’s hard to miss out on all of these warning signs, I feel everybody deep down knows they should delegate, I really do. I’m going to really put my stock behind the leaders that are listening, I really do think they want to delegate, but there’s something that is holding them back from doing it. And so we’re a family here and we’re okay to get transparent and vulnerable, and so since we’ve already hurt some feelings, let’s just go a little deeper, plenty for those of you who are listening for you to talk to your counselor or your coach about later on. But Amy, let’s share some reasons why people might be resistant to delegate.
Amy Appleton:
I think one of them is what we call the superhero belief, which is really, “I can do it all. I’m fine. I actually can do everything.” And I think a lot of people who are high achievers and high performers, their capacity, actually, it is really high and so it then becomes, you find a lot of your self value in the amount that you can handle and the amount that you can do, and that’s kind of what I mean by this superhero ideology, is that, “No, I really can. I can handle it all.”
Tricia Sciortino:
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Lisa Zeeveld:
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Lisa Zeeveld:
I feel this takes me back to, I don’t know, six, seven years ago in my leadership journey. Here at Belay we were a young startup, everything was brand new, everything still is brand new, I don’t know why I’m kidding myself, but high capacity leader, and I kept saying, “I’m fine. I’m fine. I’m fine.”, and I see it with new leaders here, it’s like you want to prove that you should be in the position that you’re in, that maybe your business… You want to prove that you can have a successful business, maybe you were in corporate world before and so you’re trying to prove something to yourself, or maybe you’ve inherited a family business, and so I really do feel that sometimes it can almost be a martyrdom as well, “Oh, I can do all this.” And so it’s the superhero martyrdom. It’s like, we have to be willing to say that even though we’re high capacity and we can do it, number one, complaining about how much you’re doing, it isn’t helping anybody, I mean then just delegate it to someone. If you’re complaining about how much you’re working, delegate it to somebody else.
Lisa Zeeveld:
And the whole, “I’m fine.”, are you really fine? Would your family say you’re fine? Would your coworkers say you’re fine? You may think you’re fine, but really take a look. And again, lean into your peers and ask others for their opinion of where you are, because I will say that our leadership team has called me out on several occasions when I said I’m fine, but y’all knew I wasn’t fine. And that’s a gift.
Amy Appleton:
Right. And I think that’s a great point… Yeah, that the people around you, they can see it before, maybe, you can. So, I think that is a great piece of advice there. Again, if you have trusted people that you work with, to ask them. Hopefully, they’ll be able to just tell you very honestly that, “No, I mean, in this season, you’re not, so how can… ” And people want to help, they do want to help. And I think you touched on another point and that is, a lot of us our people get used to being the go-to person. It’s nice to be the go-to person. It’s nice to be the doer of all of the things. And that is another reason I think that people can be hesitant to start delegating, is because that means that you are not the go-to person anymore, or someone else has more knowledge than you do, which is actually a gift to both yourself and your organization, is if you have someone who is actually better at it than you.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Yes. I think as leaders we all crave more time and more freedom, but we’re also scared of the time and the freedom, and what that brings I think that we get addicted to the busyness. And so when you have a team member who you think could handle 70% of that task, and then you sort of start imagining, “Well, what if I don’t do that task?”, maybe you might get that hour back to read a trade magazine or to make a network connection, but at first that feels a little scary because you’re used to running that 1000 miles per hour.
Amy Appleton:
And I think that is what we’ve heard, like you said, from the developing leaders, even myself, I still struggle with that, seven years into this of still wanting to be the one that can do it, even when I know that I shouldn’t be the one to do it. There is a tiny bit of pain that is still there because… You really do, you do. That doesn’t go away, you really do want to be able to do still. And then it becomes a discipline, then it becomes a discipline in order to find the people around you that you can empower to do those things. I think that it also has to do with… And something that I hear a lot is, “Well, I can do it faster.”, people sometimes are resistant, “I don’t have time to tell someone else how to do it and so I can do it faster.”
Lisa Zeeveld:
Yeah. I just think of my friend network of business owners, that’s really difficult for them, because they are moving so fast that they don’t want to take… Maybe the task might take two or three hours to show them and follow up, they’re “I just can do it in that two to three hours.” what they don’t recognize is that it’s a repeatable task. And so it’s not just that two or three hours today that it’s going to take you to show that to them, but that multiplies itself. And so you don’t ever have to reinvest that time again, but when you’re in the thick of it, I think, it’s hard to view it that way.
Amy Appleton:
Yeah. No, I would definitely agree. The other piece of it is sometimes it just feels good to do the things that you get to cross off your list, they’re easy. I know a lot of our clients and business leaders, and I know even you and being around you quite a bit here, most of the things that you’re doing do not just take one day or one hour to do. You’re thinking about complex things, you’re thinking about things that are going to take six months, 18 months, two years to do, and so that reward of having small things that you get to accomplish in a day can go away. And so I think that’s another reason that people get reluctant to delegate just because it actually just feels good that you’re dealing with long term things all the time.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Yeah. I do have a good suggestion for that, because that was one of the areas that I have learned over the last 10 years, and that’s to have hobbies or things that you do in your personal time that you can get immediate gratification. I love to garden, so I can go out, and it may be cleaning up leaves, or it may be planting bulbs, but I get to check that off my list. I have a lot of errand services that I can use, shipped or whatever you might use to run those. But there’s times on the weekend where I just really want to run to Target and get the things, because it feels good to say that I actually accomplished a task. And so I would say that, intrinsically, if you need that to fill your cup, don’t let that keep you from delegating in your professional life because there’s so much more at stake there, that find ways to get that gratification in your personal life, and that’s really helped me. I mean, sometimes I just fold laundry, hear me, not very often guys, not very often, but occasionally I’ll be “Let me just fold laundry” because then it’s one thing, especially the busier I am at work and the larger those projects are, the things that I can do in the moment mean a lot to me.
Amy Appleton:
I agree. Yeah, absolutely. I still clean my own house, and I truly believe that’s why, because it is something I get to see from start to finish and I get to see the progress and it doesn’t really take that long to do. So you’re right, to find those areas in your personal life where you can still get that, your cup filled right there.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Are there any areas or, maybe it’s not an area, but when should a leader not delegate? Because we just told them all the reasons they should, I have a feeling there’s probably an area or two when they shouldn’t.
Amy Appleton:
One that kind of came to mind for me was you can’t explain the outcome or the desired result, of what it is that you’re going to delegate, you don’t delegate that. I think a lot of delegation is about having a skillset to explain the why, have clarity around what it is that you’re asking, so that if you can’t clearly define what the end result is that you’re looking for, it’s not ready to be delegated yet. The other one would be when we’re talking about empowering people, don’t set someone up for somewhere where they’re not at that point yet, don’t ask too much of someone because it’s not truly in their gifting and you know it. What were some of yours that you were thinking about?
Lisa Zeeveld:
Yeah. I think that you need to hold off delegating if you true really can’t delegate it. There’s nothing that is more disheartening than having a leader who delegates a task to only jump back in it. So, you have to be willing to delegate 100% even if that person only can do 70% of it. You still have to delegate 100% of the task because it will suck the wind out of somebody’s sails if you are constantly going back in and checking up on them, looking over their shoulder as they’re doing the task. So, to me, that’s a trust thing, if you really can’t trust the person that you’re delegating the task to, then you’re not ready to delegate it, and it may be that you’re not ready, or maybe a person that you’re looking at delegating that task to is not ready for it, but that’s just a recipe for disaster. So, don’t do it if you can’t do it 100%.
Amy Appleton:
That’s fantastic advice. Or if you are not ready to give up the control of it, I would say if there is something that is so meticulous and you must have it done a very particular way and you can’t just delegate the end result and let them run in the middle, that might be one that you might want to consider holding onto a little longer, just because, again, that’s going to be hard if every meticulous piece needs to be done a certain way to your satisfaction. It actually has nothing to do with the result of it, the result could be the same so I’m not talking about something that has a rule or a regulation or something, I’m literally talking about you’re so tied up and so invested in a particular way that it’s done, that might be something that you hold off and wait to delegate some other time.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Sure. Yeah. It’s delegating the result, you need to be able to delegate the result of it. And I’m sure in marketing that’s really hard for people to do Amy, especially on the creative side, there’s a lot of opinions, poor Amy, she comes to our leadership meeting and she always knows she’s going to get a lot of opinions about creative.
Amy Appleton:
That is very, very true. That is very true. So, yes, that becomes an iterative process over and over again, but you’re right, I mean, it’s okay if it comes back and there’s a change because of something, someone, it has more to do with, to your point, the person who’s delegating. Don’t take it back, don’t take that monkey back, make sure that that other person, you allow them to finish what it is that you delegated to them.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Well, what can leaders do to develop the trust and clarity, communication necessary to delegate more effectively? Is there maybe some tips that we can give them?
Amy Appleton:
Yeah. I feel we’ve loaded them with so much.
Lisa Zeeveld:
I Know. They’re heavy right now, their backpack is full.
Amy Appleton:
Start small. And I think I mentioned it at the beginning, if you are really now just getting comfortable with delegating, I would say start small and go with those two things we mentioned. Start with something that someone else could do 70% as you. If that’s where you are in this journey, then I would say start small. I would also say use that check-in method, huge, which is you don’t have to wait till the end to see how they did, set in check-in points to follow up and let them ask questions and you have a chance to review it. I think that’s another great tip, to develop that trust. So, we talked about, sometimes it’s hard to give away things that even you enjoy doing them. Explain the why and the end result, why are they doing it, why is it important, where does it matter or somewhere else, and then what does the end result look like.
Amy Appleton:
I actually was delegating something this week, and somewhere in between, and when it was data that I wanted, I wanted someone to pull a bunch of data for me, and I realized at one point I hadn’t actually told her how I wanted the data in the end, what was I expecting. Did I want to in a sheet? Did I want in a graph? Did I want to in a… And I realized, oh, I need to give them the end result of what this looks like, just not the, “Hey, can you pull all this information?” but “And this is what I would like for it to look like.”
Lisa Zeeveld:
Yeah. I love that. One thing I would add is a feedback loop. I think that is a great way to kind of circle back. I think it’s easy for us to think of as the delegator, that we are going to give feedback to the person we delegated to, which is extremely important. You need to be able to give feedback. Don’t just take sub par work and go, “Oh, they didn’t do it right, forget it.” and then move on, everybody wants to know how they’re doing, if they needed to improve. But I think that works for us as delegators, I think it’s a really good muscle to strengthen, to say, “Hey, did I delegate that? Okay, could I have done it any differently?”, it doesn’t put you in a weird posture that you’re not strong enough or talented enough or leader-like enough. What it does is it puts you in a posture of being humble and that you are willing to learn how you can really set them up for success in the future. And so I always just like to say, “Ask for feedback so that next time it becomes a lot easier and that trust continues to grow and grow and grow.”
Amy Appleton:
That’s great advice.
Lisa Zeeveld:
All right. Yeah. Amy, we’ve talked a lot today, but I know that we have more, and I think we’re going to kind of close this episode, but maybe we could offer some bonus episode information, what do you think? Sounds good?
Amy Appleton:
I think so.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Awesome. All right guys, well, I need you to stick around for our bonus question where Amy and I will talk about how to navigate upward or reverse delegation. Yep, you heard that right. That’s when someone tries to delegate their responsibilities to you. Oh, oh, hey, you don’t want to miss this. To hear that clip subscribe to our email list and we’ll send you a link to our bonus content, or you can visit onenextsteppodcast.com where you can find a link in our show notes.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Thank you for joining us for this episode of the One Next Step. Be sure to join us next week for more practical tips and actionable tools to advance your business one step at a time. Start by making today count.
Lisa Zeeveld:
Don’t miss next week’s special episode, part two on delegation, I’ll be joined by Matt Seaton, the VP of operations at Belay to talk about the nuts and bolts of delegation, how to get started, how to do it remotely, how much to delegate and so much more. It’s going to be a fabulous discussion, here’s a quick preview.
Matt Seaton:
For me, coming into a new organization like Belay, my venture into delegation was building trust, really spending time getting to know those people that I was working with, my peers, those working for me, really trying to find those areas that motivate them, that drives them, those next level leader potentials. I really did want to find folks that I could pour some of my knowledge and expertise into, and really trust them to make some of those decisions.
Speaker 3:
Thanks for listening to One Next Step. Be sure to subscribe on Apple podcasts or follow us on Spotify, then join on us next time for more practical business tips and tools to help you get more done, grow your business and lead your team with confidence. For more episodes, show notes and helpful resources, visit onenextsteppodcast.com.
In the first of a two-part episode about delegation, LZ and BELAY’s Director of Marketing, Amy Appleton, will share how a leader can know when it’s time to start delegating, the obstacles they’ll face, and how to develop trust with other team members (i.e. contractors, employees, etc.). They’ll also talk about the myth of the “Superhero ideology” and why “I’m fine” just doesn’t always cut it.
