113: Everything Last Year Taught Us About Leadership

1. The difference between success and failure is not really that great. Successful people don’t make excuses.

We all fail and all make mistakes, but it’s the framing of those moments and how to leverage them moving forward that separates us. Successful people understand that there is a private price to pay before public success and that failure is just a data point.

2. Curiosity is the greatest combative to complacency. The first thing a leader should ask a person on their team is ‘Tell me what you don’t know.’

Leaders learn on a need-to-know basis. The unique thing about asking someone this question is that it creates the impetus for needing to know. Once you verbalize what you don’t know, if you have ambition or drive, you’re going to then realize that you want to know it. 

3. The law of the second question. Brilliance is found in the second question. Ask follow ups. Ask why or how.

The follow-up questions are what you turn into your blog posts or your strategic planning. That’s where you can add value to your own leadership and the people that you serve.

Brian Dodd: 00:00

If we’re not consistent as leaders, we cause the people we lead to have schizophrenia, cause they never know who’s walking in that door. They never know if that decision’s the correct decision. They never know, you know how somebody’s gonna be treated or if a good decision today is a bad decision tomorrow. The best thing you can do to create winning cultures and develop people who will be high performers is create a culture and a climate of consistency.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 00:31

Welcome to One Next Step. The most practical business podcast in the world. You’re now one simple tip practical tool and small step away from growing your business. One Next Step is brought to you by BELAY the incredible 100% remote organization, revolutionizing productivity with virtual assistance, bookkeepers and social media managers accomplish more juggle, less modern staffing from BELAY and now to your hosts. 

Ryan Fitzgerald:

Welcome to One Next Step. The most practical business podcast. Yes, I said it most today is a day of superlatives and this podcast helps you run your business. So it stops running you I’m Ryan. And today I’m talking with Brian Dodd about a host of leadership topics. And I will tell you if you are a sports fan, you’re gonna love this episode. because we dive into all sorts of examples on leadership from different sports, examples and sports teams and some of my favorite and some of my least favorite sports memories.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 01:26

And if you’re not a sports fan, I still think there is something for you to take away. You see, Brian is the director of new ministry relationships that enjoys stewardship solutions. And he’s the author of the book 2021 the year in leadership, the stories of faith, athletics, business and life, which inspired us all today. He’s gonna chat with me about all things, leadership from how to measure effective leadership, building, winning cultures and questions. We should be asking our teams. Brian is a guy that kind of lives in the same leadership circles that I do here in Atlanta. And he’s a guy that I’ve wanted to talk to for a while. And I loved this conversation and I can’t wait for you to hear it. But first I wanna take a minute to tell you about BELAY with modern staffing from BELAY businesses and leaders can focus on growth without the unnecessary overhead or learning curves associated with hiring and onboarding full-time employees. BELAY is the incredible 100% remote organization, revolutionizing productivity with virtual assistance, bookkeepers and social media managers accomplish more, juggle less and get back to what only you can do growing your business with modern staffing from BELAY. And now let’s jump into today’s conversation with Brian Dodd.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 02:34

Brian, thank you so much for joining us today. I’d love to just start off and you tell our audience a little bit about your journey to where you’re at now and how you’ve become such a well-versed expert when it comes to leadership and leadership trends.

Brian Dodd: 02:45

Oh well, thank you. I, you know, number one, it’s a thrill to be owned here. Uh, BELAY is an organization I’ve had a long history with. I actually have known your founders for over 20 years and that just incredible people in leaders and it’s just a thrill to invest in their audience. Uh, you know, leadership is just something that’s been part of my life since I was a teenager. I grew up in church, uh, CA really, if you’re talking about the Genesis of leadership and how I got interested in it, I’ve gotta go back to then I came from a broken home, but uh, you know, and there’s a whole, you know, like all broken homes, there are stories related around that. But, at my local church, that’s where I, you know, God used a group of men to intersect my life and they really filled that void.

Brian Dodd: 03:34

And as John Maxwell said, everything does rise and fall on leadership. And so what happened is as they began to make investments in my life, we did not classify it as leadership. We did not understand that’s what it was back in the early eighties. People weren’t talking about leadership, but I could see the difference that was making in my life. And then as I began to grow older, uh, people like John Maxwell started becoming more and more popular. And so as I became a youth pastor, I was exposed to his material as part of my training in development. Then I started going to conferences. Then in 2002, I had the privilege of going to work for an organization he founded. So, uh, based upon that, it was just a series of events that over and over again, just exposed me to more and more leadership. And it was really by osmosis and then utilizing it and seeing that yes, those principles work and yes, you can make a bigger and bigger impact in people’s lives. And so, you know, we’ll unpack more of that as we talk, but it’s really just been a lifelong journey and that’s how that has taken place.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 04:46

That’s really incredible. I know I’ve found something similar in my life as well, just being around great leaders, kind of challenges you to be a great leader, to, you know, kind of aspire to be that. And, um, you know, the opportunity for you to get to be around John Maxwell and then, you know, so many of the great kinda leaders in that circle is really remarkable.

Brian Dodd: 05:05

Yeah. You know, it is funny, Ryan, you are the average of your five closest friends and environment and culture does have a major impact on you.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 05:13

No, that’s, uh, that’s amazing. And I think so few of us probably are living intentionally when we really think about the people who are pouring into our lives like that, that there really is an opportunity to kind of be more intentional to kind of engage with like, Hey, who is speaking into the direction of your life and the direction of your leadership from a day to day standpoint?

Brian Dodd: 05:34

Yeah, definitely.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 05:35

All. Well, Hey, I would love, uh, before we kind of jump into some of your content and, and talk about some of the stuff from your newest book. Uh, one of the things I noticed as I was kind of working through it is you talk about sports a lot, which I love as well. Okay. And I guess I’d just love to know, like what, uh, what’s your favorite sports memory? What stands out the most for you?

Brian Dodd: 05:53

Okay. So I’m gonna date myself. I’m 57 years old. So, so I’ve been an avid sports fan since, you know, I could watch television and play baseball and understand it, you know, but if I had to pick one moment and I live north of Atlanta, Georgia, and Ryan, you’re in the Atlanta area as well. And I’m going to just offend a lot of my local neighbors. But my favorite sports memory is February 5th, 2017, Super Bowl 51. My local hometown Atlanta Falcons were playing the New England Patriots. And in the third quarter, Tom Brady throws an outlet pass. Robert offered steps in front of it, intercepts it races down the sideline scores, a touchdown. The Falcons are up 28 to three. And you know, Brady is not the most athletic player on the field. So when he attempted to make the tackle, I loved how one sports writer looked at it.

Brian Dodd: 06:56

He said it looked like a dead body the mob had thrown out of a moving car on the Jersey Parkway, you know, but then what happened is everybody now knows Tom Brady began that comeback. And you could just see that momentum building, you know, like a Tom Brady tsunami wave coming off the coast. And just that level of excitement and passion for the last quarter and a half. And then into overtime, a little bit of that super bowl. I think Tom Brady was the goat when they defeat by the time they defeated Seattle. But by the end of that game, it was, there was no question that he was the greatest quarterback who, who had ever played the game, but just the level of emotion and momentum and everything related to that game. If I had to pick one, that’s my favorite, you know, obviously I’ve got some Michael Jordan favorite moments and, you know, just the dream team and you know, just a whole other things. But if I have to pick just one, just one I’m picking February 5th, 2017.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 08:02

It’s certainly the most memorable in my life. I don’t know that I would label it favorite, but, uh, you know, that was the day I realized I had an unhealthy relationship with sports and, um.

Brian Dodd: 08:13

Many of us do.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 08:14

We had people over at our house watching. And, uh, when I realized what was happening, I just kind of started taking out the trash and I didn’t even watch the last play. And, uh, even in this moment, I realized I’ve spent a lot of time in therapy talking about a lot of stuff, but not this. And maybe I need to bring that up.

Brian Dodd: 08:32

You know, Ryan, whenever you’re interviewed, one of your unspoken goals is that they will have you back in the future. You know, anytime somebody’s interviewed, that’s an unspoken goal. Uh, the fact that I’ve brought up this PTSD in your life, I’ve now realized that I will not realize that goal probably in the future, so.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 08:53

Uh, well, or maybe I’ll have, have to, because I have to unpack it further. So we’ll do a whole episode just about talking about this. I know for me, uh, it moments like that or like the infield fly moment for the Braves kind of right around that time as well. It’s something about those like tragic sports moments that in your fandom that really stand out in like remarkable ways. And I think, uh, you know, there’s a lot to take away from that, certainly.

Brian Dodd: 09:15

Oh, well definitely. I think we’re probably gonna be talking about it a little bit as we talk more, but the difference between success and failure is tissue paper thin most of the time, one play here, one play there, one decision here, one decision there, one higher here for an organization. Another hire there, the difference between success and failure is not really that great.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 09:39

Well, let’s, uh, just jump right in there. And let’s talk about that. I would love to hear kind of the, the thought and I know that’s something you’ve written about and shared about the, kind of the difference between success and failure and how you kind of can tell the difference. And when I read some of your work, I was like, oh my goodness, you have a really unique insight kind of on this whole concept. You want to kind of dig into that a little more.

Brian Dodd: 09:59

Yeah. I’ll unpack it a little bit. I, I think, and, and, you know, I wrote about this in the book, but I think if you’re defining success and failure, I, I, if I have to classify who are the people that wind up on the success side of that more than the failure side mm-hmm <affirmative>, I think it’s all tied to excuses, you know, successful people don’t make excuses. They don’t traffic excuses. If I can use that term, we all fail. Okay. We all fail. We all make mistakes. Only one perfect person walked the planet. So we’re, we’re all gonna make mistakes, but it’s the framing of those moments and how to leverage them moving forward is what I think separates people, you know, in a, in America, we, we do not all start from the same place, but if you live in America, you’ve hit the lottery ticket.

Brian Dodd: 10:51

I mean, cause cause you’ve got, you’ve got a chance. So when I think of, when I think of success and failure, little things matter, you know, are you detail oriented? You know, do you just wing it as a speaker or have you prepared down to the moment? Do you take shortcuts? You know, do you, do you put in the effort the longest distance between two points is a shortcut? You know, I also think about people who are successful. Generally speaking, they’ve paid a greater price than those who are making excuses. They’ve worked harder, they’ve stayed up late. You know, they’ve, they’ve built a team they’ve, they’ve done the collaborative work, they’ve done trial and error. Y you know, I’m looking at my daughter growing up now and she can now see the difference that she paid the price in education that other people didn’t. And now she’s seeing the benefits of that. So the successful people understand that there is a private price to pay before you get public success. And they understand that failure is just a data point. It’s just information that what we’ve done is we, you know, we’ve discovered one of the 999 ways not to make a light bulb

Brian Dodd: 12:09

Yeah. And they frame failure and they frame preparation and they frame process differently than unsuccessful people do. So whenever, whenever I’m leading somebody and let’s say they haven’t hit their goals for three months in a row. Okay. So that’s a practical example. Yeah. I’ll say, well, walk me through this. I mean, we, you know, obviously we all know we haven’t hit the goal three months in a row. Tell me what your thoughts are. You know, what are you doing? If they start making excuses, the problem then becomes is I’ve gotta deal with personal development, not professional development. So if they own the failure and they’re like, you know, I just gotta get better. I made this bad decision or I didn’t, I didn’t utilize my pipeline. Well, or there’s something in my verbiage. That’s not coming across the right way. Or maybe I need to walk, work on my emotional inte or something. If, if we get an understanding that, okay, I need to develop personally. Now I can transition to professional development, but if I have to start with personal development, uh, that’s a challenge from a leadership perspective.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 13:19

Yeah. You know, I, um, I have several young leaders on my team right now that have a ton of potential and you can see it in them. And the secret is all about how they are gonna develop it. And the, the ownership they’re gonna take of that. And, you know, I’m trying to put some of the tools in front of them that were helpful for me early in my career. Things like, you know, seven habits of highly effective people, right. And things like that, that really were like these pivotal moments. Uh, but ultimately it’s like self ownership. You really have to own it. You have to follow through. As I kind of walk through this content of yours in preparation for today, you had a picture of an athlete playing sports. And I think they were probably running sprints or, or something like that.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 13:53

And, uh, the, it, it showed the, the difference between success and failure. And it wasn’t giant. This picture for me was so clear. It’s why I bring it up. And it was just so helpful, but like, it wasn’t necessarily the, you know, a hundred yards, it was a half a yard. It was the difference. Uh, you know, the difference between crossing the goal line with the ball and celebrating just a half a yard early, which was this kind of, you know, series of events we’ve seen in college football over the last few years happen time and time again, that really is the difference between success and failure. Not someone being laid out 50 yards back.

Brian Dodd: 14:24

Well, Ryan, I’ll, I’ll tell you this. When I write the book 20, 22, the year in leadership. Yeah. And I’m halfway through it. I’m kind of writing it as the year goes along. The thing I write about about this past year’s Super Bowl is most people remember on the last play of the game, Aaron, Donald sacked, or caused Joe burrow. I may be a little off Y you know, to make an err throw, but, but Aaron, Donald wrecked the play. Okay. A picture came out after the Super Bowl that Jaylen Ramsey had fallen down and Jamar chase. The Beng wide receiver was wide open. And the difference between Joe burrow becoming the next Tom Brady, and one of the most legendary comebacks in pro football history was probably about two to three seconds. Yeah. And if Aaron, Donald would not have come off on the snap of the ball as fast as he did, if the guard would’ve just held the block two seconds longer, if Aaron Donald would not have taken the path he did to Joe burrow, or Joe burrow could have stepped a different way. History could be changed. Yeah. Aaron, Donald would not be getting the most richest co he probably still would, but his level of celebrity, he just signed at the time of our recording, the richest NFL contract for non quarterback in history. But the way that that history would view everyone involved, two second difference.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 16:00

The difference between success and failure is paper thin, as you said.

Brian Dodd: 16:04

Yeah. Here’s the encouraging thing. Now you can look at it negative, or what if, or all that, but if you’re going through a tough time as a leader, or you’re frustrated as a leader, hold on for two more seconds. Cause you don’t know what could happen. That’s when that right hire could happen or that right idea or that right connection. Or that right Insight or something of that nature. If you can hold on, you are arguably two seconds – every leader listening to this – is arguably two seconds away from doing something generationally significant through their life and their leadership.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 16:39

Oh, that’s amazing to think about it from both angles, not only the discipline to push through, but then on the other side that, that, you know, that moment is what you are kind of working for and to push through then lets you get there. That that’s really challenging. Um, I feel like we’re talking about a lot about sports and I think we should just stick there. Uh, okay. And if you don’t love sports, then you’re getting to learn a lot about football today, but also, uh, you know, I think one of the reasons it’s so helpful is because it’s just such a clear example of leadership that we all get to watch. And so much of leadership in other places or kind of it’s kind of hidden, or it happens in the context of a one-on-one meeting or a small boardroom. Uh, but we get to watch sports and we get to see teams succeed and fail, uh, together. And I think it’s really remarkable. One of the things that you wrote about was, um, an experience you had, um, was sending a question into coach McVay and he kind answered your question on, on his podcast. Do you, you want to share a little bit about that story and what your takeaway was from that?

Brian Dodd: 17:35

Yeah. And you know, I write about all types of leadership, you know, um, business, family, sports, Christian leadership. I mean, I write about all forms of leadership, but uh, I do love these sporting conversations. So that’s great. So let me tell you my fascination with, with Sean McVay and a couple of his contemporaries, um, most avid football fans understand the significance of the 1994 Cleveland Browns. Now on paper, they were a very average team. They made the playoffs about one or two years, and then they ultimately art mode sold the team and they moved to Baltimore. But in 1994, bill be check was the head coach and that cradle of coaches that staff he had on that team, they largely influenced the next 25 years of football. Nick Saban was the defensive coordinator. Uh, guys who would go on to be NFL coaches like Eric man, genie, Romeo Cornell, Jim Schwartz, they were all on that.

Brian Dodd: 18:37

Staff. Ozzie Newsom was a scout on that team, Phil Savage, who would become a general manager and head of the senior ball. He was on Thomas Demetra. You know, his, his roots can be traced back to there. So anyway, that team shaped the next generation of football. It’s my theory that the Washington Redskins now the Washington commanders of 2010 to 2013 is this generation’s version of that team. Oh wow. So that team was coached by Mike Shanahan. They only made the playoffs once, but their staff consisted of three coaches. Three, these three coaches were on their team. Matt LeFlore, who was coming off back-to-back 13 wins for head coach of the green bay Packers, Kyle Shanahan, uh, who has taken a, the San Francisco 49ers to the super bowl. And Sean MCBE was on that team as well. Kyle Shanahan was the, was the offensive coordinator and McVey was on his staff and McVey, of course, has been the two Super Bowls and won one.

Brian Dodd: 19:40

I am fascinated by that Washington team. I have actually emailed famous sports writers and beg them to do a book about that team. Oh yeah. What was it about that team and that culture that birthed and created a group of leaders who will define football for this generation. Okay. What was it about that team? I’d love to know. And so I’ve not been able to find the answer. So Sean McVay had this podcast called he and Peter Schrager have the NFL network were doing it and it, it was called the flying coach. It’s part of the ringer network, bill Simmons, ringer network mm-hmm <affirmative>. And at the end they said, if you got any questions for coach McVay, send in your questions and I thought, okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna look, they’ll never answer it, but I’m gonna, I’m gonna write in a question. And in the book, I actually have a picture of that email that I sent.

Brian Dodd: 20:35

And, uh, it basically says something, it gives the intro just like I gave the intro. And I just said, what did you learn from coach Mike Shanahan about creating a winning culture? You know, very basic question. Well, I’m driving to help a church in the beautiful city, the mega city of Ozark, Alabama. Okay. So I’m driving through south Alabama O headed towards Ozark, Alabama. And I was just listening to the podcast, you know, on the long trip, you know, in the rural country. And then it gets to the, it gets to the point where, you know, they get to, okay, now let’s go to our mail bag for, you know, questions from our listeners. And then they go, the first question comes from Brian, from Woodstock, Georgia. And I’m like, yes. Okay. So I I’m about to learn something. And they, they asked the question and coach McVay says the main thing, and I’m gonna paraphrase a little bit.

Brian Dodd: 21:34

But the main thing he learned from Mike Shanahan was the value of consistency that winning organizations are defined by consistency. And, you know, he began to unpack that, you know, consistent behavior, consistent accountability, a consistent communication, you know, everything was, was consistent and it created this framework that everybody could operate within and develop. And so one of the things as a leader that I learned from that is if we’re not consistent as leaders, we cause the people we lead to have schizophrenia, cause they never know who’s walking in that door. They never know if that decision’s the correct decision. They never know, you know, how somebody’s gonna be treated or if a good decision today is a bad decision tomorrow, the best thing you can do to create winning cultures and develop people who will be high performers is create a culture and a climate of consistency.

Brian Dodd: 22:36

Yeah. And so that was the main thing that I got from that experience. But here’s another thing I’d share from, for listeners about that. Looking back, if you want to know something and that piece of information will make you a better leader, how much is a good idea worth, do whatever you have to do to find out the answer to that question you’re seeking out. Uh, you know, I’m a 56-year-old man and I’m typing a question, you know, a question to a podcast, how humiliating, you know, that’s, that’s something I’d have done at 14, you know, but I wanted to know, I wanted to know what about that environment created those type of leaders. And so, yeah, I took a shot and sent in a question and, and it got answered and it made me the answer made me a better leader on the back end.

Ad Break: 23:33

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Ryan Fitzgerald: 24:06

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Ryan Fitzgerald:

It’s interesting. I feel like when I hear you tell that story, there is an example of both consistency and curiosity, and it’s almost consistency of curiosity. You’re never, uh, you’re never too old. You’re never too late in your career. You’re never, uh, it’s never too early to just ask the question and learn kind of what, what does it take to, to be great? because we have people and we have examples of that to look at.

Brian Dodd: 24:48

Yeah. Ryan, curiosity – and that’s a great word — it’s one of the great leadership buzzword right now. But, curiosity presupposes a certain level of humility. You know, that there’s things I don’t know. And there’s, you know, and I’ve, I’ve still got room to grow as a leader and I’ve still got ways to develop and, and I wanna know, and here’s what happens with learning. It’s like when you’re reading books or listening to podcasts or something like that, a very healthy muscle gets developed. The more you learn, the more you learn, you don’t know and how much more there is to learn. And you get in this very positive spin cycle that, okay, I’ve learned that. And now I now know there’s something else. I don’t know. So now I’ve gotta learn it and you get into this, uh, curiosity is the greatest combative to complacency that I know.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 25:43

No, that’s totally true. And if, if you listen to our podcast regularly, you know that that’s, we’ve talked about similar things, you know, with, uh, other, other episodes about how you keep wonder in front of you as a team and how do you grow growing that? So I think as a owning your own leadership, yeah. Asking that question is one of those things, but let’s, uh, let’s take it kind of from the other side you talk about and, and some of your writings about the first question a leader should ask people on their team. Yeah. And this kind of ties in directly what we just talked about, but could you share how you learned this insight and how it could help our listeners?

Brian Dodd: 26:12

Yeah, absolutely. So leaders are readers, you know, and I’m sure that most of the people who listen to this podcast are, are readers. So I was reading a book, uh, last year written by bill Poon. So bill Poon is an NFL hall of fame, general manager. Uh, he built the Buffalo bills that went to four straight super bowls. Uh, he built the Indianapolis Colts with Peyton Manning that won a Super Bowl and he built the Carolina Panthers that, you know, they got very good, very quick when, when their team was launched and he, he was the architect of that team. So he wrote a book called Super Bowl blueprints. Well, as somebody that wants to, you know, be part of a winning organization, be part of a winning team. Well, these are the teams that, that have won at the, at the highest level. And this is a man who has built the teams that have, that have won at the highest level.

Brian Dodd: 27:04

So I wanted to know how these teams were formulated, what their thought process was, what their culture was, how they did talent, acquisition, how they made decisions, all those type of things. So I bought the book and, uh, there’s a tremendous amount of knowledge in that book from a leadership perspective. But one of the things that really stuck out to me was the Pittsburgh Steelers teams of the seventies. Okay. So in 1977, the team had already won two Super Bowls by that time. And they hired a college coach by the name of Tom Moore to be their wide receiver coach. Well, Tom Moore in NFL circles as legendary, one of the best assistant coaches of all time, he was Peyton Manning’s, uh, offensive coordinator all those years in Indianapolis. Okay. And so he was, he was coming in, well, he was just a college coach that was coming in to help two-time champion Pittsburgh, Steeler wide receivers.

Brian Dodd: 27:58

Lynn Swan had already won the MVP. So they sit down for their first meeting and Lynn looks at him and I’m gonna paraphrase again. But he goes, you know, I know you’re a college coach, but here’s what I’ve learned. The longer you can stay in this game, you can make a lot of money and I wanna stay in this game as long as I can, you know, can you help me? And then this is where the brilliance of Tom Moore came in. And if you’re ever leading elite people and let’s just say, they’re more talented than you are. Okay. You’ve been hired to be a sales manager. Well guess what? You’re taking over a team that, that they’re all on the president’s club and now you gotta lead ’em okay. Yeah, this is what’s happening here. And uh, you know, Tom Moore then then said this, he goes, okay, tell me what you don’t know.

Brian Dodd: 28:56

And then at that point, Lynn Swan, and I do have this quote here. He, he goes, we don’t have a clue how to adjust routes, how to read coverage or how to get open. So what Tom Moore did that entire summer, he was not teaching them technique and how to catch a football and all that kind of stuff. He taught them how to beat double coverage for an entire summer. Yeah. And so for instance, in about a week, I’ve got to do some training for a member of our team. That’s just kind of going through a, you know, a rough season, you know, there’s seasons of harvest and seasons of famine, you know? Yeah. And, uh, you know, the Lord gives and the Lord takes away. Well, he’s in a season of famine right now, so I’m just gonna spend a little time with him. And when I sit down with him, the first question I’m gonna ask is I’m gonna say, okay, look, you’re talented. You know, you got great resume. You know, you got great history. What don’t, you know about what you’re facing right now, by the way, in a post pandemic world, a post-2020 world in which everything changed, what don’t, you know, maybe the best leadership question you can ask your team.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 30:10

No, that’s really great. I think, um, one of the things I heard from one of the leaders that I worked for early in my career is he always said, leaders learn on a need-to-know basis. And I think that one of the really unique things about this question is what don’t, you know, is it, it kind of, um, creates the impetus for needing to know because once you verbalize what you don’t know, if you have any level of ambition or drive, you’re gonna then realize you want to know it. Like, and so it’s actually a perfect way to manage high performers. Yeah. That’s super challenging. Have you seen other examples as we’ve kind of come from the other on the other side of 2020, you know, you talk about how everything has changed. I was listening to another podcast that you did and you shared some things of that. John Maxwell said about 2020, how it impacted leadership, but for our listeners, when you look at 2020, and then this most recent book you’ve written 20, 21, what would you say? Some of the like major leadership, leadership trends and takeaways have been for you and kind of this post pandemic leadership landscape?

Brian Dodd: 31:15

I think what 2020 did, 2020 was two things. And a lot of people have said this, this is not gonna be a new thought, but it was a mirror and it was an accelerant mm-hmm <affirmative> uh, number one, if you were gonna go outta business, you went outta business quicker, you know? Yeah. If you were gonna grow and scale, you grew and scale quick, you know, quicker. So it accelerated everything, but it was also a mirror and it really revealed everything about you from both a character and a skills perspective. And when I look back over 2020, and then writing the book 20, 21, the year in leadership, the, the two big learnings and they’re actually contradictory in a, in a way the absolute deficit of leadership fundamentals at high leadership levels, I’ve often said, and I’ve written three leadership books, but if you’ve read the Bible and John Maxwell’s 21 laws of leadership, you, you, you you’ve got everything you need.

Brian Dodd: 32:16

Okay. <laugh> and I’ve written three of them. So, um, you know, but the basic fundamentals of leadership, like you put the team success ahead of your success. Yeah. You, you know, like basic conflict resolution skills, building people up, listening skills, you know, the, the ability to, to make quality decisions and, and sacrifice and these type of things at, at high levels of leadership, we’ve seen just an absolute deficit of leadership basics. That’s why John Maxwell said in 2020, he was leadership, sad, you know, everything rises and falls on leadership. Well, what happens if it falls? Okay. And, and we saw, we saw a lot of FA well, a lot of failures and a lot of falls now. Yeah. Here’s where it gets contradictory on what the news would report and what you would read. And, you know, I have this joke now about the Barner group and I love the Barner group, but what’s one article you’ll never read from the Barner group.

Brian Dodd: 33:24

Hey, here’s five things that are going pretty well. You know, you’ll never, you’ll never read that from the Barner group, you know, it’s always the sky’s falling and that kind of thing. Yeah. But you know, but the thing about it is while on a, on a, on a large scale, very visible leadership level, we’ve seen a deficit the day in, day out every day, leadership that’s happening through businesses, nonprofits, churches, athletic organizations, I think has been absolutely extraordinary. Yeah. And one of the things that I always try to do in my writings and I, I talk about this in the, for of the book, I didn’t address, you know, race, politics, insurrections, sexual sin, any, any of that kind of stuff, several reasons. Number one, there there’s people out there much more intelligent on those topics than I am and they’ve written books about it.

Brian Dodd: 34:22

So, you know, they’re just better resources for that type of thing than I am. But I love telling the stories and giving people the tools that they need that happen every day. And then they can take those tools and resources apply it to their life and they can read my book and get better. Right then. Yeah. You know, it, it does not have to be a crockpot. Obviously there will be crockpot things, but for instance, you know, we talked, uh, you know, that’s not in the book cause it was 2017. Well, here’s the leadership lesson from the 2017 super bowl, super bowl, 51, there is a difference between sensing opportunity and seizing it. Yeah. And the Falcons had an opportunity and did not seize the opportunity, which then gave Tom Brady an opportunity and he seized it. Okay. That’s a basic fundamental leadership that there are people today being given opportunity, they’re being offered an opportunity to invest in a business or an opportunity to, Hey, meet me for lunch and meet this person I wanna introduce you to, or something like that. Or they’ve got an opportunity to address an issue while it’s small. Okay. Yeah. There’s a difference between sensing opportunity and seizing it. And that’s a clear example of day to day leadership that quite honestly, in 2021, the day to day leadership was extraordinary. And I was privileged to get to tell a lot of those stories.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 35:51

Now that’s really incredible. I, I feel like, uh, in the same way that we’ve kind of experienced this volatility in just the world over the last few years, uh, we’re going through that economically right now. And you know, it really is, it’s, it is an opportunity for many, you know, there are new and different ways to seize that and move forward. One of the things I love about many of the clients and so many of our listeners of this podcast, uh, is they’re the type of leaders who are looking for that opportunity. And I know that’s similar to the type of people you’re working with as well, and who are engaging with the, the stuff you’re putting out,

Brian Dodd: 36:23

Right.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 36:24

As I kind of dive into your history as a leader and how you’ve embraced leadership content in such unique way. It, I would just love to hear how you would describe your approach to kind of documenting and exploring leadership. Cause I think, uh, it’s very clear that that has been a passion of yours. It’s been helpful in your career and in your life and the way that you’ve set up your, you know, your children you’ve even shared. And so I would love to hear like, what is your philosophy behind that? And like, what is your approach and what can we take away from that?

Brian Dodd: 36:51

Yeah, definitely. So I’m part of the John Maxwell tree — if you wanna use that terminology. Okay. Me, Dan Ryland, Tim Elmore, Mark Cole. There’s, there’s an army of us. Okay. Brad, Loick, there’s, there’s an army of us. So I can even tell you what branch I’m from on that tree. And that is the law of intuition that leaders view everything through a leadership bias. So there was some moment when I started working for John Maxwell in, in 2002, I was, I was leading a team and my, the president of that particular company, his name was Dave Sutherland. And one morning Dave walks into my office and Dave was a very intense person. Okay. Very intense. And he comes in it’s about seven in the morning. He goes, Brian, do you know why Kenny Phillips is starting as a freshman for the university of Miami? And you, you know, Dave did not ask all of Dave’s questions led to a speech he wanted to give.

Brian Dodd: 37:53

So you didn’t really answer the question, but I knew who Kenny Phillips was at that time, he was the number one high school player in the nation. He went to play for the University of Miami and he would later go on for a pretty successful career with the New York giant. So yes, I knew who Kenny Phillips was. I said, well, no, Dave knows why he goes, why I was reading in sports illustrated, Brian and his, his voice just kept escalating, you know, preparation, Brian. That’s why he is playing as a freshman preparation. He’s doing this in practice. He’s preparing, how are you preparing your team for success? And he’s just working himself into a lather, you know? So he gets up, he leaves the office and I’m sitting there and I go, I read sports illustrated and I read Fast Company magazine. And I read USA Today. And you know, I read the sporting news and I read all these, why don’t I start every article I read, I pull the leadership principles out of it.

Brian Dodd: 38:53

Good. So that practice actually started in 2002. And if I walk into my closet, which, uh, you know this will omit the listeners, but it’s over my left shoulder, about 10 feet. That way I’ve got from that era about five notebooks that are about three inches thick of articles, I printed out and highlighted the leadership lessons. Well now we fast forward, you know, to 2008 and you know, blogs are starting to get popular. And so I’m like, well, why don’t I just kind of document what I’m learning and just document it on the internet instead of a three-ring binder? Yeah. And so anyway, that’s how Brian dot on leadership started. I would witness something, you know, I would, I would go out to dinner and I would see something that the waiter waitress would do that I thought that was really good, you know, or I’d read an article and then I’d write about that article.

Brian Dodd: 38:54

And really, you know, my website, Jerry Seinfeld does observational comedy. He just notices things in life and can really transform that in, into, you know, brilliant comedy. Well, I’m, I’m, I’m an observational leadership guy. So what I can do, I’ve now worked that muscle so much that, okay, I, I can watch something or look at something or read something or experience something. And if I think that’s worthy of bringing it to the readers, my website operates kind of as a hybrid diary slash Evernote. Yeah. That I actually edit and format so that other people can learn from the journey I’m on. And then of course the crazy thing. And it’s just funny how it works out that has, you know, very popular website has birthed into coaching courses, three books, speaking opportunities, coaching. It’s just a, it’s just amazing what can happen when you’re faithful with a concept of an I, of a concept or an idea. And then it compounds over time and I’m just a picture of compounding. That’s all. That’s all I am.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 41:10

Yeah, no, the amazing takeaway for that for me is just approaching things with the leadership lens, approaching things with that curiosity, or just like the intention to take away learning from it and figure out the application. You know, I’ve always said there’s like two types of people who go to Disney World. There’s the type of person who walks around and, and goes, this is cool. And then there’s another person who goes, oh my goodness, how do they do this? And, uh, if, if you approach life with that kinda idea, that lens of leadership first or strategy, first creativity, first, it enhances life. And then it sometimes ruins it, but it, you know, uh, I think it really does set you up to draw inspiration and, and instruction from all sorts of places.

Brian Dodd: 41:50

Well, Ryan, your spot on, let me coach your listeners on, on kind of technique I use. Okay. That’d be amazing. And it’s yeah, it’s called the law of the second question. Brilliance is found in the second question. Okay. So let’s say I go to church this Sunday and I’m leaving church. And I look at my wife and I say, that was a good, that was a great church service. And then we just go on with our life. We go to lunch and you know, we do whatever we’re doing on Sunday afternoon and we just, I don’t give it a second thought. Okay. So when you say that was a good service, wasn’t it. Okay. So here’s the law. The second question. Why was it a good service? That’s the blog post.

Brian Dodd: 42:32

Yeah. So the, the elements and the components that made it a good service, you would wind up seeing that in something a, a blog post that would be titled like 10 components of a great church service or, you know, 10 signs of a great Sunday morning experience, or, but the law, the second question to take a couple of minutes and ask, why was it a good service or how did they do that or something of that nature. That’s where the genius comes from. And to take the curiosity and just the discipline to ask those questions, that’s where you can add real value, both to your own personal leadership and to those that you serve.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 43:14

That’s amazing, Brian, I think, gosh, I’m actually really challenged by this because I’ve, I’ve carried an assumption for a long time that kind of either you have it or you don’t in a way like you either see the world that way or you don’t. But the idea that it’s a law that can be applied by anybody, the idea, the law of the second question, that is something that anybody could do and can grow that muscle. And it makes it so accessible for everyone that that is really challenging for me. And honestly, the way I coach so many leaders that I work with as well.

Brian Dodd: 43:41

Yeah. Here’s the phrase I would use for ’em there’s a difference between inclination and identity. Oh, that’s good. It is an, you may not be inclined to be curious. You may take things at face value that, Hey, I get it. I totally understand that I’m describing most of the people in the world. But you can train yourself that no, I’m gonna be a curious person. I’m gonna ask why I’m gonna ask the law the second question. And I may forget to do it several times as I’m building up that muscle, but once I developed a habit, no I’ve moved from then from inclination to identity. And that’s something that a lot of leaders, you know, that’s a good training tool for leaders.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 44:25

Well, that is so good, Brian. I’m walking away challenge significantly by that. And, uh, I can’t wait to, for our listeners to get to this part of the interview. I hope you listen to the whole thing because uh, for me that was worth all of it. Well, Brian, one of the gifts you’ve given so many people, not only is just the idea of the wall. Second question, but you asked that question and then you kind of deliver on it. So regularly through your blog, through your books, how can people get a copy of your book and then how can they connect with you? What are the best ways to kind of benefit from the hard work that you put into this?

Brian Dodd: 44:55

Oh, well thank you very much. That’s very kind of you to, to offer that. Look, just go to Amazon and type in Brian Dodd and Brian is spelled with an “I” and, with my Southern accent, nobody can understand my last name. So it’s Dodd, D as in David, O, D as in David, D as in David. Okay. But just type in Brian Dodd 2021 and it’ll come up and I don’t know when this, this will be airing, but ironically, Amazon’s just put the book on sale. So, you know, you should, could be able to get it at a discounted right now, but, uh, but yeah, you can go there. Also my website, Brian dot on leadership, I post about six times a week. So you can get leadership content delivered right to your mailbox and Ryan, I’m still old school. I’m still on Twitter. I’m one of the last guys hanging on, you know, by my fingernails, but I’m still on Twitter. And at Brian K Dodd, you can find me on Twitter, Brian dot on leadership on Instagram. But yeah, that’s where you can, you can find me and I’d love to have your listeners join our leadership community and interact with them and learn from them and invest in them and make it a mutually beneficial relationship. I’d really love that.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 46:07

That’s awesome. I, uh, like you, I still love Twitter. It’s my first love and I can’t give it up. So I, I understand, uh, I will say, and, and Brian, you, you’re not bragging on yourself on this. One of the things I love so much about your content, both your book, and then also your blog is they are bite sized. They are approachable kinda lessons and easy to apply, uh, with a team. And I think for many of us that are leading teams and trying to figure out how to balance the appropriate amount of time for leadership development and also kind of getting work done and all those things. One of the, the amazing things about your content is it, it, um, they’re almost axioms. They’re, they’re like they’re approachable content to process really fast, have a quick conversation and everybody moves forward with them. And I think that’s such a gift to the people on the other side of it.

Brian Dodd: 46:52

Well, thank you very much. You know, I learned that from John Maxwell, you know, put the cookies on the lower shelf, you know, make ’em accessible to everybody. And, uh, yeah, that’s, that’s what I, that’s what I attempt to do. And you, you know, the interesting thing is, and, and my leadership is positive content as well. You know, you’re not gonna hear me rip people or anything of that nature. Uh, I’m not getting canceled by anybody cause I’m not really ripping anybody. So, you know, I’m, I’m staying right that middle of the road, but it’s been my philosophy. It does not take a lot of intellectual acumen to tell people what’s wrong with something the real, uh, intellectual and, uh, heavy lifting is like, okay, that may not be perfect, but what can we learn from failure? Or that went really well, how can we replicate that so we can make our organization better? So that’s the kind of stuff you’ll read. If you number one, get the book or number two, visit the website.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 47:48 

Well, we will link to all of those things on the show notes page, and you’ll wanna make sure to do that, but first, Brian, thank you so much for joining us today. I really, really appreciate it.

Brian Dodd: 47:56

Well, and, and I thank you. And look, I, I wanna say this, and this is this, this, um, you know, this is not a paid endorsement. BELAY is one of the great organizations in America. And, uh, I had the opportunity to do, uh, a number of things with BELAY when all they did was do virtual assistance, you know, and just to see the impact that that BELAY has had and just how it’s grown from that and the leaders that it’s impacting and how it just relieves stress of leaders and makes leaders lives better and more efficient. If you’re not taking advantage of all the services BELAY provides, uh, you, you, as a listener need to take advantage of them class organization, unbelievable leadership, and they deliver the best service in the industry. You’d, you’d be thrilled to, to take advantage of their services.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 48:48

Well, I didn’t have to say it today. Brian did. Uh, so thank you. And, uh, this conversation’s been so great with Brian Dodd. He’s actually gonna, uh, stick around and hang around for a little bit after the interview to answer one more question for us about one of the most powerful leadership lessons he’s learned from a sports figure. So you’re not gonna miss that. To hear that clip, subscribe to our email list, and we will send you a link to our bonus content or visit onenextsteppodcast.com where you can find a link in our show notes.

Ryan Fitzgerald: 49:14

Gosh, I had such a great chat with Brian Dodd. There’s just so much to take away from there. And he’s just one of those leadership guys that no matter what question you ask him, he has a really succinct, easy, memorable kind of principle that you can walk away with. And I found that even just in the kind of day or two, since I had that conversation, that I’ve been able to apply that in the way that I lead my team. And I hope you’ll be able to as well. 

Ryan Fitzgerald:

All right, we do have One Next Step for you to take this week. We encourage you to check out Brian’s book 2021 the year in leadership. And I want you to head to the show notes page for today’s episode to access Brian’s website, his social media and links to be able to grab a copy of his book. Well, thank you so much for tuning in for this week’s One Next Step to make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe on Apple Podcast or follow us on Spotify. And if you’re ready to start accomplishing more and juggling less, go to belaysolutions.com. Join us next time for more practical business tips and tools to help you advance your business. One step at a time for more episodes, show notes, and helpful resources, visit onenextsteppodcast.com.