104: How to Have Courageous Conversations

1. Build relationship capital.

If you have a trusting relationship where you have your team’s best interest at heart, it makes tough conversations go much better. A lot of people don’t know they are underperforming. So be transparent and sincere to help that conversation go well, then be sure to follow up in writing.

 

2. Listen before diving into solution mode.

If you jump in too early, you might be trying to solve a problem that isn’t there. Do a fact-finding session first, and gather information. Then, be empathetic. Put yourself in their shoes and try to understand what their perspective is and how it’s impacted them. From there, you can clarify expectations.

 

3. Clarify that you’re talking about a problem, not a person.

In a work scenario, it can start out feeling very interpersonal. But you’ll usually find out it’s more about a problem, not the person. The feedback in that conversation goes much better when you identify the problem, and it doesn’t feel as emotional on their end.

 

Lisa Zeeveld on LinkedIn and Instagram

Krisha Buehler on LinkedIn

Lori Friedman on LinkedIn

 

Links & Resources Mentioned

The System and Soul podcast

(02:50) Krisha and Lori talk about their go-to mid-day snack. 

(04:30) Why are conversations on certain topics so hard?

(06:09) Should you create some sort of framework or guide to start a difficult conversation?

(08:49) Be an active listener. 

(10:14) What are some other scenarios, outside of leader to employee, where having a difficult situation might come up in the workplace?

(16:10) What are some healthy ways to navigate conversations between team members who have interpersonal conflict?

(18:15) You have to know when to stop an unproductive discussion. 

(21:23) How do you have a difficult conversation when you’re talking with someone about performance issues?

(25:50) Just like a parent, you don’t go into the conversations with emotion or anger. You have to neutralize that beforehand. 

(27:46) What are some of the biggest pitfalls to avoid when approaching courageous conversations?

(29:43) Krisha and Lori talk about how to show up with compassion during difficult conversations.

Krisha Buehler:

You set the tone as a leader. So if you walk in charged and ready to go, that’s what you’re going to get coming right back at you. Somebody’s going to be on the defense immediately, and that will not be a productive conversation.

Lori Friedman :

And I think it circles back again to relationship capital. If you have a strong relationship with that individual, they know you genuinely care about their success. And so you can have those feedback conversations and they’re much less awkward and much more comfortable.

Ryan Fitzgerald:

Welcome to One Next Step, the most practical business podcast in the world. You’re now one simple tip, practical tool, and small step away from growing your business. One Next Step is brought to you by BELAY, the incredible 100% remote organization revolutionizing productivity with virtual assistance, bookkeepers, and social media managers. Accomplish more. Juggle less. Modern staffing from BELAY. And now to your hosts.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Welcome to One Next Step, the practical business podcast that helps you run your business. So it stops running you. I’m LZ and I’m joined as always by my amazing co-host Ryan.

Ryan Fitzgerald:

Hey LZ. It is great to be here today. I’m so looking forward to your conversation.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Me too. Today, I’m very excited to talk with two members of our BELAY team, Chief People Officer Krisha Buehler and HR manager, Lori Freedman . Krisha and Lori are going to share the framework they use whenever they need to have a hard conversation network. We’ll also walk through some practical examples of difficult conversations we all experience. And then we’ll explain how you can show up for your team and your customers with courage and compassion.

Ryan Fitzgerald:

Speaking of difficult topics, LZ, let’s talk about time and how there’s never enough of it. But what if you could have an extra 15 hours every week? Sound too good to be true? It’s not. With the help of BELAY, the incredible organization revolutionizing productivity with subscription based virtual assistant, bookkeeping, and social media strategist services, you could reclaim an average of 15 hours every week delegating just five tasks like emails, scheduling, social media management, accounts payable, and expense reporting. Accomplish more. Juggle less. Modern staffing from BELAY. Let’s jump into today’s conversation.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Welcome ladies. I’m so excited for you to be here today on the One Next Step.

Krisha Buehler:

Thank you. We’re excited to be here.

Lori Friedman :

Thank you. Yes, love that we’re here.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yes. We’re going to have a blast. And we’re talking about such an important conversation. But I always love to tease out, I don’t know, just something fun that our listeners can really connect with you. So do you mind answering a fun question for me?

Lori Friedman :

Sure.

Krisha Buehler:

Go for it.

Lisa Zeeveld:

All right. So it’s the middle of the day, you kind of feel your energy starting to decline and you’re like, “I need a snack.”

Krisha Buehler:

I always need a snack. It doesn’t matter if it’s after lunch.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yes. For me, it’s always that 3:00 timeframe where lunch is sort of gone and I need a little pick me up. What is your go-to snack?

Krisha Buehler:

Oh, I want it to be cookies all the time, but chocolate chip to be exact. However, usually like a handful of nuts, right? Like cashews.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Oh my gosh. You’re too good.

Krisha Buehler:

I know. I try. I try. Again, it’s the discipline that I just don’t have. It’s easier to go for the chocolate chip cookie.

Lori Friedman :

I agree. I also love a good snack, but if I am feeling a salty snack, I definitely go for some SkinnyPop or some popcorn. And then if I am feeling something sweet, I’ll go for some kind of chocolate protein bar. That’s usually my go-to.

Lisa Zeeveld:

You guys are making me look bad.

Krisha Buehler:

Protein bar.

Lisa Zeeveld:

I know. Nuts, protein. I really liked your first answer better, Krisha. Cookies.

Krisha Buehler:

Right. I mean, we’re going to be honest, right?

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah.

Krisha Buehler:

That’s what this whole conversation is about today.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yes. And especially I’m really surprised because what the world doesn’t know is that your daughter is an amazing baker. And so I really did think that you were going to come out and say like a piece of cake, cupcake, like something. And you hit me with nuts, man.

Krisha Buehler:

I know.

Lisa Zeeveld:

I can’t believe it. Well, like you said, we’re all here to be transparent and to talk about those courageous conversations today. So let’s go ahead and jump in for our listeners. We know that people aren’t perfect, and that conflict is a natural part of business and life. So why are conversations on certain topics so hard?

Krisha Buehler:

Well, if we’re going to keep it to the workplace, I think that they’re so hard because the vast majority of people are kind people, are good people. Nobody wakes up and says, “I really want to deliver a really tough message” or “I want to hurt somebody’s feelings today.” And I think that when you know that you have to deliver a tough message, you don’t want to hurt somebody’s feelings. You are already aware that they’re probably trying really hard, but they’re just not getting it. And so you don’t want to add salt to the wound. And the other part of it is, it’s uncomfortable. And I think it’s easy to brush it under the rug and not do it, but that really is like the selfish thing to do because it makes us uncomfortable. And so giving feedback is really a very selfless act because it’s hard and it’s uncomfortable and you don’t know how the person on the other end is going to react. Right, Lori?

Lori Friedman :

Yeah, I completely agree. It is really the best thing for the individual to be able to be honest with them and give that feedback. And so if you can approach it like that, it makes it easier, and as Krisha said, less selfish. Basically it’s a selfless act.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. I love that. Do you find before you’re walking into that conversation, like you’ve created some sort of framework or guide that you use in order to start that conversation? Because I would imagine, like you said, it’s hard to deliver it just as hard as it is to receive that. So what kind of framework do you use? Maybe walk us through that approach.

Lori Friedman :

Yeah. I think one thing that’s really important to start with is pouring into the relationship of the person you’re working with or you’re leading. Having that relationship capital makes all the difference in the world with having these courageous conversations. If you’ve got a trusting relationship where they know that you really have their best interest at heart, it makes these tough conversations so much easier. Then I would say the second thing you need to do is really prepare for the conversation. You really need to bullet out all the items you want to cover, all of the issues that might be happening in the current situation just to make sure you’ve got yourself organized, you’ve got the facts collected and that it can be an effective conversation.

Lori Friedman :

I would also just approach it as being 100% honest, transparent and sincere. Really having that authenticity is going to also help the conversations go well. A lot of times people don’t know they’re underperforming, or maybe they do, and you just have to approach it that you need to deliver the information very clear and direct so they fully understand where you’re coming from. And then I guess finally I think it’s good to follow it up in writing so that there is no confusion. Nothing can be misinterpreted, you provide clarity, and it’s right there for both of you to review and refer back to as you move down the journey of improving performance.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah.

Krisha Buehler:

Yeah. I totally agree. I think making sure you follow that up is key because you don’t know how the person on the other end is really interpreting what you’re saying. You think you’re being very clear, you think you’re being direct, but you have no control over what they are hearing and what they are remembering. And so when you follow that up in writing, it just is extremely clear. And what do they need to do to improve, you know?

Lisa Zeeveld:

Right. Yeah.

Krisha Buehler:

Clearly defining, like Lori said, “Here’s the expectation. Here’s where you missed it. Here’s what you need to do to improve.”

Lori Friedman :

The other thing I would add is that it’s really important to be an active listener. You can go into the conversation with your outline and your bullet points and unless you’re truly hearing what they’re saying and listening to understand, the conversation could be derailed.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Sure.

Lori Friedman :

So to keep it along that lines of just really listening.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. I love that. And I really like the idea of following up. And I feel like that’s a part that gets missed quite often. I know that when I was learning how to have courageous conversations, I would then go to write that email and realize, “Oh, maybe I didn’t say that as direct as I should have.” Again, it’s that accountability part so you really know. And so now what I find, in my mind I’m already starting to draft the email and it helps me have the conversation because I’m like, “Wait, wait, I’m going to have to put this in an email and I want to make sure I’m very…” Because that would be embarrassing. I know for me as a leader, if someone then received the email and was like, “Wait a second. On the phone call, you didn’t make it sound like it was this bad. And all of a sudden the email is really harsh or the performance improvement plan is really harsh.” And then that starts to go, “Oh, are you, are you leading them well?” And so I love that component of following it up with some written documentation.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Well, let’s talk about maybe some scenarios, because I know for me, it’s always helpful to kind of have some examples where this should show up. And so does there anything in the workforce that maybe comes to mind immediately, maybe it’s not just with an employee, but maybe it’s even having to coach a client or somebody who’s doing work for you. I mean, I think this runs the gamut of opportunities to have a courageous conversation.

Krisha Buehler:

Yeah, of course. I think that… Let’s use a client scenario because it’s a little bit of a different dynamic. I would say if it’s a client, somebody is paying for your product or your services and you obviously want to keep them as a client and so you might approach it just a little bit differently because you probably haven’t laid out all the very clear expectations of the client’s job, right?

Lisa Zeeveld:

Right. Right.

Krisha Buehler:

So I think it’s a little different. I think Lori hit on it before where she said be an active listener. So you go in kind of with your agenda in the back of your head, but you might be really off, you might be making some assumptions on where this client is coming from, so I think it’s really important to ask good questions and really listen to the response that they are giving you. We all have a tendency to dive right into solution mode. And what happens is we might not even be trying to solve the right problem. So I think along with being authentic like we shared before, it’s really being empathetic. Take a moment and put yourself in the shoes of the client and really try to understand what their perspective is, what they are going through and how they are viewing this situation and how it’s impacted them.

Krisha Buehler:

Once you guys can kind of talk through that, it is perfectly appropriate to ask them, what do you expect me to do? What do you want me to do? What is your end goal of this conversation? Because again, if you don’t know, you’re marching to two very different topics and there won’t be a resolution. So after you have that, it really is walking through what that might look like. What are some things that you maybe can do on your end? What are maybe some things the client needs to do on their end?

Lisa Zeeveld:

Sure.

Krisha Buehler:

So compromise, right?

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah.

Krisha Buehler:

Most of the time in any kind of conflict, it takes two to tango.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Right. Yeah.

Krisha Buehler:

Very rarely is it 100% one sided. One of the things to watch out for though is don’t over promise. I think sometimes when you are with a client, we want to serve them so well. You want to serve them so well in your business as well. But don’t promise something that you know that you cannot deliver on because you’re in a moment of weakness. And then just like Lori shared before, is follow that conversation up with an email, right? “It was great to talk with you. Here’s what I took away from our conversation. Let me know if I missed anything.” So I think it’s similar, but a little bit different than like an employee situation.

Lori Freedman :

Yeah, I agree. I think the other thing we tend to do is want to jump into solution mode right away and fix it. Sometimes you just need to have a fact finding session and gather the information, take a step back and then return to the client with the solution or the resolution.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Because so often I find in most client relationships it’s not solely transactional, right? You need to have what you talked about earlier, Lori, was having that personal kind of connection, realizing that you’re both human. They’re paying for a service that you need to deliver and so there needs to be clear expectations and really truly an understanding of what you’re supposed to be delivering. I think that when you go into it and you are actively listening, it can also help you with future relationships with clients, right? When you go in there kind of arrogantly, you might miss out on opportunities for improvement in your service and it could just be not what you’re selling, but how you’re delivering your true customer service, like, “Oh, I didn’t realize that was a gap.”

Krisha Buehler:

Yeah, absolutely. I think that there’s a lot of assumptions made about listening. To practice active listening is a very difficult skill. It really is. And so if that’s something that you may struggle with, that’s probably where the first place you need to start.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Right.

Krisha Buehler:

Because how many times are we listening but we’re already formulating our response to what they’re saying before they’re even finished saying what they’re saying? And so if we’re doing that, we are not actively listening, and therefore we are really going to be missing out on some of those key points, Lisa, that you just mentioned.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I think that one of the best things I was taught with active listening is that you are not expected to give a response, right? So we’ll ask a question and then we start hearing what they’re saying and going, “Okay, well I’m going to say this.” But ultimately you’ve asked the question and they are the one responding, you don’t need to respond. And so if you forget what you were going to say, that’s okay, because you actually might not have needed to add anything to the conversation at the end of it, you know?

Krisha Buehler:

Right.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Oh, I love this. I love this. Well, let’s talk a second about navigating conversations about personal conflict among team members. In a perfect world, you hire people and they love each other and they become best friends. We know this from all of the surveys we take. You need a best friend at work, a whole other topic we can go into. We’re going to invite you back to talk about best friends at work. But in reality, it doesn’t always work that way, because we are a job and you’re here to get work done. So what does it look like when you have to sit down with one or two people to discuss an interpersonal issue?

Lori Freedman :

Yeah. I think it’s important as an HR representative to really maintain a neutral stance in those types of situations. You are there almost as a mediator in that sense when you have a conflict between team members. You can, number one with them, set the ground rules right up front. Be respectful, let’s not interrupt each other. And make sure those expectations are set going into the conversation. Then as people start telling their side of the story, again listen for understanding. That active listening comes back into the picture again. And then if emotions get high, you are really there to diffuse the situation and redirect things back to the facts. As long as you can stick to the facts in any kind of conflict, that really helps keep that emotional level a little more stable.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Sure.

Lori Freedman :

You don’t want to discount the emotions. You can acknowledge them, but again, like I said, redirect back to the facts of the situation. Clarifying both parties what their point of view is, making sure there is an understanding. And then really working to come to some kind of common ground is important. It may not be satisfactory to both parties, but you can find a compromise that will resolve the situation. The other really important thing to know is sometimes when going around and around in conflict becomes unproductive, you have to know when to stop that discussion and agree to disagree and move forward.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Do you ever find… We’ve said this a couple of times within BELAY. We don’t always agree. Look at that. We don’t always agree here at BELAY. It’s shocking, right?

Krisha Buehler:

Yeah.

Lisa Zeeveld:

But when you need to clarify that we are talking about a problem and not a person, right? We’ve done that a couple of times because I think that if… Especially in work scenarios that it can start out feeling very interpersonal, but then you come to find out that maybe it’s more about a problem and not about that person. I feel like that the feedback and that courageous conversation goes much better when you sort of identify what you’re talking about. And then it doesn’t hurt so bad when you identify exactly what you’re discussing.

Krisha Buehler:

Yeah. And I think, Lori, when you compared it kind of to a mediation, it’s so true. In a mediation, both parties have to come to the table at least willing to compromise.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Sure.

Krisha Buehler:

You know? And so just as you said, you need to know when to shut the conversation down because it’s unproductive. You also need to make sure upfront that both parties are going to enter this with all of the things that you listed, being willing to understand and listen and see the other side of the story and admit that maybe there’s some fault, otherwise it’s just not going to work. So it’s not even a conversation worth having if the people that are going to be in the conversation aren’t willing to come to some sort of agreement.

Lori Freedman :

True.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Stubbornness has no place, right?

Krisha Buehler:

That’s right.

Lori Freedman :

Exactly.

Ryan Fitzgerald:

If you’re loving this podcast, we’ve got an idea for you. Check out the System & Soul Podcast. The System & Soul Podcast is hosted by longtime entrepreneurs and business coaches, Chris White and Benj Miller. System & Soul is a holistic business framework that helps leadership teams get clear on what’s holding them back and helps them take the right steps to gain control. The System & Soul Podcast is your place to hear from business leaders who are sharing their experiences in the struggle, what’s helping them gain clarity and control, and what it looks like to reach massive breakthrough. They’re serving up conversations with business leaders who not only have valuable expertise in their field, but also believe deeply in building soul into their business. Learn from conversations on doing business without compromising your health, what makes a leader worth following, and moving culture from prescribed program to real time practice. You’ll gain practical knowledge on how to run your business better and do it with authenticity, healthy leadership, and people at the heart. To listen, search the System & Soul Podcast on your favorite podcasting app. Now let’s get back to today’s episode.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Well, how about when it comes to performance? Because I have found that these are some of the toughest conversations when you have to come to somebody and say, “You’re not delivering the expected results” or “You’re just not living up to, this is even harder, our values and our mission” because gosh, that is the core of an organization. Where do you even begin?

Krisha Buehler:

Yeah. So I think the question that you started off with that framework that Lori talked through is that is key in a situation like this.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Okay.

Krisha Buehler:

So back way up, the first thing you got to do is establish that relationship capital like Lori talked about, right?

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah.

Krisha Buehler:

So that’s something just as a leader that you need to do out of the gate with all of your team members so that if you find yourself in the situation, which you will, then it is a little bit easier to navigate. So you’ve got your relationship capital. And then the next thing you need to make sure that you have as a leader is everybody on your team has expectations of their role. They know what the metrics are. They know what meeting their job requirements or not meeting looks like. Those are not things that are just reviewed on an annual basis. Those are ongoing conversations. So that when it does come time to have a conversation, most of the time, they’re not caught off guard because we’re talking about the performance or how you show up in meetings on a very regular basis, right? Feedback should happen in real time, not when you’re going to give a performance review.

Krisha Buehler:

And so with that being said, once all of the expectations are clearly stated, then you just have to acknowledge where they’re falling short. They probably know if you guys have been talking about it, but then this is where the empathy, and maybe some compassion come into play. Remember that you hired this person because you saw value and what they were going to bring to your company. I would imagine that this person maybe been there a while and they have been performing well in the past. And so if you find yourself in that situation, just ask, “Is there something going on? Are you struggling with something that’s having an impact on how you’re showing up at work?” Because most of the time there is. Most of the time something is happening outside of work that may be having an impact on how they’re showing up. And so once you’ve kind of uncovered whether that is… And maybe not, and it’s a training gap.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Sure. Yeah.

Krisha Buehler:

Maybe there is a skill gap. And so it really just allows you to dig in to really find out what the actual problem is. So from there you still can empathize, but you still need to address what is not happening. So stick to the facts, have your bulleted items. Be very clear. Clear is kind, right, Lori? We say that all the time.

Lori Freedman :

Yeah.

Krisha Buehler:

Clear is kind. And then walk through that action plan. What do you need to do? When do you need to do it by? And how are you going to do it? And then make sure that they really understand that you are here for them. You want them to succeed. And from there, it is, again, follow up in writing. And then check back in. It’s not easy to hear “You’re not doing a good job,” just probably worse than telling somebody they’re not doing a good job. So check in on them make sure that they’re doing okay and that they know that you have their back.

Lori Freedman :

And I think when you have a clearly defined action plan, that also helps give them the confidence that you believe they can do it. And so you are behind them, supporting them. And that really helps in the whole process. And then also, to be able to recognize and celebrate small wins. They may not get to the end goal the first week of the performance improvement plan, but if you’re seeing progress, you need to recognize that and celebrate it.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Yeah. Do you find that… At least I know. I have not always had great bosses. Shocking. And then I found that they came to the table angry, right? There was like a lot of passion. And I feel like as leaders, for those listening who might be a parent, it’s the same thing. You don’t go into this conversation with a lot of passion or anger or disappointment. Do you feel like you kind of need to neutralize that before you go in?

Lori Freedman :

Absolutely.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Lots of head shaking.

Lori Freedman :

Yeah.

Krisha Buehler:

Yeah. I mean, as the leader you control the pulse of that conversation, right?

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah.

Krisha Buehler:

And that’s another thing that we probably should add, Lori, is a conversation like that should happen face to face, whether that’s over Zoom or in person.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Sure. Oh, yeah. That’s a good point.

Krisha Buehler:

Because that really allows you to read the body language. How is your message being received? What does that person need? Do they just need a minute because they’re a little emotional? But you set the tone as a leader. So if you walk in charged and ready to go, that’s what you’re going to get coming right back at you. Somebody’s going to be on the defense immediately. And that will not be a productive conversation.

Lori Freedman :

I think it circles back again to relationship capital. If you have a strong relationship with that individual, they know you genuinely care about their success. And so you can have those feedback conversations and they’re much less awkward and much more comfortable.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. The other thing we say a lot is the kind truth, right? It’s really the kind truth. And when you frame it that way, you really realize what a gift that you’re giving. And when someone is courageous enough to give you feedback, what a gift you are receiving. So I love that. Yeah. What are some of the biggest potential pitfalls we should avoid as we approach courageous conversations?

Lori Freedman :

I think one of the big ones is trying to sugarcoat the information. People think that’s the best way to do it. They don’t want to hurt feelings. They want it to come across as much nicer and less direct. But being direct and clear is much, much better. The lack of clarity just leaves everyone struggling. So I think that that’s a big one. Be direct. The other thing is we do a really good job of communicating clear expectations, but unless we tell people directly, you are not meeting expectations. Again, they may not get that message. So that goes back to being direct and being clear. But the other thing that we’ve also emphasized throughout is follow up the communication with writing just to provide any clarity, avoid any miscommunication or confusion.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah, that’s perfect. Okay. Ladies, before we wrap up, I want to share this quote from BELAY’s Lead Anyone From Anywhere ebook about courageous conversations. It goes a little something like this. “Courageous conversations must come from a place of compassion. No one will have a courageous conversation if they don’t care about keeping the person around. They require permission. It’s impossible to have a courageous conversation if the other person doesn’t buy into it. They require foresight. Plan ahead, but remember that the other person hasn’t had time to prepare. Give them some space to steal their nerves and show up for you and the conversation. They are not a one time conversation. Courageous conversations do not happen in a vacuum and they require more than one meeting to guarantee changes.” Okay. So I need you ladies to talk to me about this idea of showing up with compassion when you’re having a courageous conversation. What does that look like in practice?

Krisha Buehler:

Yeah. I mean, I think we’ve hit on it a couple of times, but it is showing up with empathy, right? This is not about you in the moment, this is about someone else. And recognizing that you need to try to put yourself in their shoes. We talked about how you show up really sets the tone. So making sure that you show up. You, even as the deliverer of the feedback, palms up.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Right.

Krisha Buehler:

And knowing that this is going to be difficult. I think giving people the space they need. I know that we’ve all had instances where the person on the other end is very emotional. Maybe crying and they need to turn their video off or they need a minute. Give them that space to recollect themselves and come back to the conversation. Ask them how they’re feeling. Ask them if they understand what you are telling them. Ask if they have any feedback for you. I think it’s all about realizing that it is a two way conversation even if the information that you’re having to deliver is difficult.

Lori Freedman :

I think if you’ve delivered a very difficult message, it’s also important to give some time and follow up with the individual. Check in with them. Just stay in tune and see how they’re doing.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah, yeah. As a receiver it’s nice to know. There’s one thing to receive it in a tone that was really good, but some people start to overthink. And so after the conversation is done, then they’ll go, “Oh, well, did they say it like this?” They start making up things. And so I think that’s when the follow up is really important because you give them time to kind of maybe start to imagine the things that you didn’t say and kind of reset and go, “Hey, I just wanted to follow up. I’m still really happy you’re here” or “I still enjoy you being part of our team and I’m behind you. I really do believe you can be successful. Let me know how I can do that.” Because sometimes people just spin themselves up and then they’re not able to meet expectations because it’s almost like self sabotage.

Krisha Buehler:

Yeah.

Lori Freedman :

Right.

Lisa Zeeveld:

They just don’t think they’re going to ever do a good job or I’m always going to disappoint them. And so helping to level set that a couple of days later or a couple hours later, depending upon the weight of the conversation, can make all the difference.

Lori Freedman :

Right.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Well, guys, this has been so amazing. I have a question, a big favor, maybe just one. Would you mind sticking around? Because I’d love to offer some bonus content to our listeners.

Krisha Buehler:

Are you going to send me a cookie?

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yes. I will send you cookies, especially for that afternoon snack when you think you need those doggone nuts. No nuts.

Krisha Buehler:

I know, right?

Lisa Zeeveld:

Well awesome. So guys, they’re going to stick around and we’re going to ask them a question about how leaders can practice the skill of courageous conversations. You definitely don’t want to miss it, but in order to hear the clip, you must subscribe to our email list and we’ll send you a link to that bonus content. Or you can always visit onenextsteppodcast.com where you can find the link in our show notes.

Ryan Fitzgerald:

What a great conversation with Lori and Krisha, LZ. What was your favorite takeaway from what y’all talked about?

Lisa Zeeveld:

I know. I loved spending time with the both of them. They’re so fantastic. And I love that they were able to come on and share some of that wisdom with our listeners. For me, I think it was all about telling the kind truth. Clear is kind. Recognizing small wins, maintaining empathy. I think there were just so many golden nuggets there that our listeners can take away. It’s kind of difficult to just pick one. I mean more is always better, right, Ryan?

Ryan Fitzgerald:

Oh, absolutely. And I know those difficult conversations end up being some of the most fruitful in the long run when you’re leading teams. And so I know that episode was so helpful to so many people.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. So helpful. Well, now guys, we have one next step for you to take today. Head on over to the show notes page to access today’s resource and take the first next step towards elevating your business.

Ryan Fitzgerald:

Thank you so much for tuning in for this week’s One Next Step. To make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe on Apple Podcast or follow us on Spotify. And if you’re ready to start accomplishing more and juggling less, go to belaysolutions.com.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Join us next time for more practical business tips and tools to help you advance your business one step at a time. For more episodes, show notes, and helpful resources, visit onenextsteppodcast.com.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Next week, I’ll be joined by one of BELAY’s top leaders, Amy Appleton, to talk about ways in which leaders can be more productive. We’ll be talking about ideal work weeks, daily rhythms, delegation, and hosting virtual meetings. This will be a fantastic episode with a lot of information from our new ebook “Lead Anyone From Anywhere.” Here’s a quick preview…

Amy Appleton :

For me, it just comes down to a couple of things. And then what we’re doing on our team is kind of asking, why am I having this meeting? Like number one? What’s the outcome? Because there are so many of those memes out there that are just like, this meeting could have been an email. And so really trying to avoid that for our team.